HC Deb 24 June 1953 vol 516 cc2033-52

No person shall be disqualified from being a member of the Federal Legislature except upon grounds which would constitute a disqualification for membership of the Commons House of Parliament in the United Kingdom.—[Mrs. White.]

Brought up, and read the First time.

Mrs. White

I beg to move, "That the Clause be read a Second time."

I would point out that the words in the proposed new Clause No person shall be disqualified from being a member of the Federal Legislature …, include becoming a member or remaining a member of the Federal Legislature.

This is our last attempt to try to include in the Bill safeguards for the Africans in these Territories. So far, we have been completely unsuccessful in moving Her Majesty's Government to meet us on any point that we put forward, but I hope, notwithstanding that, that the arguments which we are about to adduce on this new Clause will convince the Government that they ought to look once again at the federal scheme as it stands in Command Paper 8754.

If the scheme goes forward as it is without Amendment we shall be committing a quite monstrous injustice. I refer in particular to the provisions for disqualification which are given on pages 18 and 19 of the federal scheme. Those apply to persons qualified to stand for election to the Federal Legislature under the special arrangement for specially-elected Europeans and specially-elected African members. Those have been set out in detail in the federal scheme. The conditions for the ordinary elected members, and not those who particularly represent African interests or the Africans themselves, have not been set out in the scheme because, according to a footnote to page 18, the existing electoral laws in the several Territories should apply to them. We are, therefore, considering the disqualifications which have to apply to the African members or to the Europeans who represent their interests.

I shall try to show that those disqualifications of the African representatives when compared with the disqualifications for the other elected members—those referred to in the footnote to page 18—are such that the Africans will be put in a less advantageous position than other members. I should like the Minister of State for Colonial Affairs to study the disqualifications which are enumerated in paragraph 22 of the federal scheme. I do not think that we should have any objection to 22 (a), but I should like the Committee to note that a person is disqualified from elections under 22 (b) or from continuing to be a member of the Legislature, under 26 (j), if he holds or is acting in any office of emolument under the Crown; … That is not qualified in any way. If that provision is not altered the effect will be that those members who are elected to represent Africans, or to be specially concerned with African interests, cannot become Ministers.

9.45 p.m.

If one takes the corresponding arrangements in Southern Rhodesia, the only one of the Territories which at present has Ministers, one finds that the legislation there concerning membership provides that no one shall remain a member who shall accept any office of profit under the Crown other than of a Minister, … If it is the intention of Her Majesty's Government that any of these persons, European or African, may conceivably become Ministers then clearly this provision must be put in the Order in Council, and it must be possible for them to hold that type of office under the Crown that is mentioned in the Southern Rhodesian legislative instrument.

The provision in this scheme seems to me to be a quite definite piece of discrimination. If it is unintentional, as I trust that it is, I hope that Her Majesty's Government will consider the matter and make certain that under the Order in Council there is no possibility of these members being prevented from becoming Ministers, should they be so appointed. That seems to me to be a very important point.

There are other important disqualifications concerning candidature for or membership of the Federal Assembly. I will not discuss the disqualification relating to bankruptcy provided in paragraph 22 (c). Those of us who have studied this matter are very much disquieted by the disqualification in paragraph 22 (d) and the corresponding disqualification in paragraph 26 (i) because it is quite clear that this provision is something more stringent than is to be found in existing Legislatures in the Territories. We feel that it is putting an intolerable condition upon persons who might be elected to represent Africans.

It is suggested that anyone who has within the immediately preceding five years completed the serving of, a sentence of imprisonment (by whatever name called) exceeding six months imposed in any part of Her Majesty's dominions … may not stand as a candidate for election.

Mr. Brockway

Shame.

Mrs. White

It is clear that this condition is very serious indeed. In the corresponding provisions in the Southern Rhodesia Constitution, which we sometimes criticise in debates in this Chamber, a person may not remain a member of their Legislature if he shall have been sentenced to imprisonment without option of a fine for a term of not less than 12 months, not six months. Similarly he may not become a candidate if, within the previous five years, he has been imprisoned as a consequence of having been convicted of a crime and sentenced to hard labour without the option of a fine, or to any greater punishment.

It is clear that serious offences are concerned in those provisions, and the person concerned would have been guilty of a crime for which he shall have received a sentence of imprisonment with hard labour without the option of a fine, and so forth. But the condition here is a sentence of "imprisonment (by whatever name called) …" That might cover all kinds of things. In Kenya it may happen that persons are detained in preventive custody—and I presume that "imprisonment (by whatever name called)" would cover that—without at any time having been brought to trial, but the fact that they were detained for six months without necessarily having been convicted of anything would, under this arrangement, mean that for five years they would be disqualified from standing as candidates for election by their own people. This provision is open to the most serious abuse.

Further, it will be noted that this provision applies not only within the Federal Territory; it includes a person who has been imprisoned in any part of Her Majesty's Dominions. We can very easily imagine that a citizen of one of these Territories, working in the Union of South Africa—which is at present one of Her Majesty's Dominions, whatever it may become in the future—may have committed an offence against one of the Union's laws which we abhor, and he may have been imprisoned for six months. I shall not go into the details of the legislation of the Union of South Africa, but it is perfectly obvious that a situation might arise in which a person was kept in detention in the Union of South Africa for six months or longer when we might all feel that he was absolutely morally right in what he had done. But because of that detention he can be debarred for five years from standing as a candidate to represent, in the Federal Legislature, his people for any one of these Territories.

I suggest that this provision, as it stands at present, is something which ought not to be allowed to pass this Committee without the most strenuous protest If it has come into the scheme inadvertently, without due consideration on the part of Her Majesty's Government, they can at least give us the assurance that they will amend it in the proposed Order in Council.

It is true that in Northern Rhodesia there is a retrospective provision which contains the phrase, "imprisonment (by whatever name called)." That is the provision for membership in the case of elected Members of the Northern Rhodesian Assembly. But so far as the African Members who are at present nominated in Northern Rhodesia are concerned, the bar to membership is imprisonment for a term exceeding 12 months, for an offence which is obviously twice as grave as that contemplated in this particular provision.

If the people are putting up anybody for candidature they will find that the conditions for membership of the Federal Legislature are far more restrictive than the ones to which they have already been subject in Northern Rhodesia. It is because of these very serious doubts in our minds that we propose, in this new Clause, that the conditions of disqualification for the Federal Legislature shall be no more severe than those which apply to Members of the House of Commons. That seems to us to be the best kind of safeguard which we can offer to members of the Legislature in the Federal Assembly. What happens in the territorial Legislatures remains a matter for the territorial Governments, but I think that it is really for us in this House, in assenting to a scheme of this kind, to consider very carefully what we are doing.

I am fortified in this opinion by referring to the Southern Rhodesian provisions of 1923, when Southern Rhodesia became a partially self-governing country, in which they state that the privileges of members of their Legislature were to be defined by the Legislature, but provided no such privileges, amenities or powers shall exceed those for the time being held, enjoyed and exercised by the Commons House of Parliament of the United Kingdom. It seems to me that if the privileges should not be greater than those of the Commons House of Parliament in the United Kingdom then the disabilities should not be greater either.

For these reasons, I make a most sincere appeal to Her Majesty's Government to look once again at what is included in the federal scheme and ask themselves whether they are not, in the provisions as here laid down, in fact differentiating between the African representative members and the ordinary elected members. I ask the Government most sincerely to reconsider this proposal in the federal scheme and to consult, if need be, with the other Governments concerned, and put to them the points which we have raised, because I believe that if their intention is sincere they will be able to get agreement on this matter.

Mr. Hopkinson

This is a very complicated issue, but I hope to persuade the hon. Member for Flint, East (Mrs. White) and her hon. Friends that in fact the fears which they have expressed in regard to differentiation against the Africans or against the Europeans representing the Africans do not exist.

The position as regards the first election to be held under the Federal Constitution is that elected members, that is to say, all the ordinary members of the Federal Assembly from Southern Rhodesia and Northern Rhodesia, other than the three specially elected members from Southern Rhodesia and the two specially elected members from Northern Rhodesia, will be subject to the existing disqualifications in the respective laws of the two Territories.

Under paragraph 19 of the scheme, the Governor-General will enact similar disqualifications for elected members from Nyasaland. So there remain the specially elected European member for Southern Rhodesia and the six specially elected African members from the three Territories—two from each Territory. All these are to be elected for the first Parliament in accordance with regulations made by each of the Governors of the three Territories.

Since no electoral law exists which can be adapted to provide for the election of specially elected members, it was found necessary to set out the qualifications and disqualifications in paragraph 22 of the scheme—the paragraph to which the hon. Lady has referred. These qualifications and disqualifications are similar and almost identical with those which now exist under Northern Rhodesian law. They are in fact the standard of qualification under the Northern Rhodesian electoral law which was introduced, unless I am mistaken, by the late Government. It was certainly not changed during that time, and I believe it was actually introduced during the time of the late Government. The matter is certainly complicated, but I do not believe that any discrimination exists.

10.0 p.m.

Mr. J. Griffiths

Do I gather that the right hon. Gentleman is saying that the law came into existence for the first time after 1945?

Mr. Hopkinson

I believe this one in Northern Rhodesia did when the Constitution was revised, but I may be wrong and I will not press the point.

Mrs. White

Is the right hon. Gentleman suggesting that they are the same? If he studied the matter he would realise that the Northern Rhodesian law provided that the Governor in Council might in a certain case remove such disqualification. There is no such provision in the federal scheme.

Mr. Hopkinson

Perhaps I might pass to the two points on which the hon. Lady criticised the new disqualifications. Paragraph 22 (1) (b) states that no person will be qualified to be elected who holds or is acting in any office of emolument under the Crown. I am obliged to the hon. Lady for raising the point and should like to tell the Committee now that the Order in Council will provide that the office of a Federal Minister will not be regarded as an office of emolument under the Crown.

The hon. Lady raised two points about paragraph 22 (1) (d). She first drew attention to the fact that detention for five years might be regarded as equivalent to serving a sentence for five years. I am glad to be able to assure her that that is not the case and that ordinary detention such as she described in Kenya would not constitute a sentence of five years for this scheme.

Mr. Hale

The period was six months.

Mr. Hopkinson

The period of operation was five years. The hon. Lady also criticised the fact that six months was fixed as the period of the sentence.

Mr. Bing

If someone like the son of the late Governor-General of South Africa indulged in what I hope all hon. Members of this House would do if they were in a similar position, resistance to the iniquitous legislation in South Africa, and suffered a term of imprisonment, would he be prevented from holding office?

Mr. Sorensen

Would not Nkrumah have been disqualified?

Mr. Hopkinson

He would not have been disqualified in Northern Rhodesia.

The hon. Lady contrasted a period of six months imprisonment in regard to these regulations with the period of the sentence for hard labour in the Southern Rhodesian Act. As I said before, we had to follow one of the schemes, and we followed the usual scheme in the Colonies, the one in existence in Northern Rhodesia under which the ordinary members for Northern Rhodesia will be elected when the time comes. It has to be remembered that ultimately there will have to be an electoral law to cover the whole Federation.

Mr. Fenner Brockway

Would not this provision have kept Nehru and half the Cabinet of the first independent Government of India outside the Indian Legislative Assembly? Would it not have kept Dr. Kwame Nkrumah out of the premiership of the Gold Coast? Would it not have kept out of office nearly every African who has been struggling for the freedom of his territory?

Mr. Hopkinson

If the hon. Member will let me continue, the Constitution of the Gold Coast and this Constitution provide that a free pardon may be given, in which case the person in question is eligible for election. That is exactly what happened in the case of Dr. Nkrumah.

Sir L. Ungoed-Thomas

Let us take the case of South Africa, and the case of one of these political Acts to which we object. Let us take the case of a person convicted under one of these Acts and sent to prison for more than six months. First, what is the justification for subjecting that person at any stage at all to the ignominy of being debarred from qualification under the scheme? Secondly, if a free pardon is necessary and is to be exercisable on advice, on whose advice will it be exerciseable? Will it be exerciseable on advice sent up from the Prime Minister of South Africa or will it be on entirely independent action by the Minister of Commonwealth Relations in this country and flatly contradictory to the wishes of the Prime Minister of South Africa?

Mr. Hopkinson

We are not discussing South Africa. A free pardon would certainly not be given, as far as I have studied this particular question, except on the recommendation of the Governor-General of the new federation.

Mr. Griffiths

The case of Dr. Nkrumah has been referred to. May I ask the Minister of State for Colonial Affairs a further question on that? We have already discussed what Minister will be responsible for this Federal Government. The free pardon procedure in the Gold Coast, in Northern Rhodesia and in Nyasaland is now in the exercise and discretion of the Governor-General acting through the Secretary of State for the Colonies. Would that be the position under a federal scheme?

Mr. Hopkinson

As I understand this provision, the question of a pardon would be under the responsibility of the Governor-General of South Africa.

Mr. Bing

Would the right hon. Gentleman allow me to put a question? It is very important. [HON. MEMBERS: "No."] Yes.

Mr. Hopkinson

No. In the case of a man who has been convicted in South Africa the pardon would have to be given by the Governor-General of South Africa. That is perfectly clear and that applies to any number of British Colonial Territories. It is precisely the same provision.

Sir L. Ungoed-Thomas

Does that not make it clear that the Government's proposal is farcical and unjust?

Mr. Hopkinson

The hon. Lady the Member for Flint, East suggested that this might be got over by assimilating the procedure on the qualification or disqualification of Members to the House of Commons. We looked at that and found that the House of Commons Regulations depend partly on common law and partly on different statutes. They are extremely lengthy and a lot of the provisions are quite unsuitable for application to Colonial Territories. The present provisions which are proposed for the Federal Assembly are those which are already in use and are well understood in Central Africa. This applies in particular to the provisions about the specially elected European or African member being obliged to vacate his seat if sentenced to a term of imprisonment exceeding six months.

Mr. Hale

Is the right hon. Gentleman saying—because I cannot believe him—that if Doctor Nkrumah had been convicted and sentenced to six months in South Africa he would never have become Prime Minister in West Africa?

Mr. Bing

Yes, that is what the right hon. Gentleman is saying.

Mr. Hopkinson

May I be allowed to proceed because I think this is satisfactory. Any federal law which seeks to alter this qualification in any way will have to be reserved for the Secretary of State's approval. In due course when the time comes to bring forward an electoral law there will be an opportunity for assimilating the arrangements for the ordinary members with those of the specially allocated members and European members. I am quite satisfied that the present provisions, together with future adaptations which may be necessary later, will protect the interests of Africans just as effectively or more effectively than by applying the Regulations for election to the House of Commons as suggested in the new Clause.

Mr. Bing

Before the hon. Gentleman sits down, will he answer this question which has already been addressed to him: If Dr. Nkrumah, as he undoubtedly would have done if he had been in South Africa, had protested against the ridiculous, offensive and disgraceful laws there, would he have been allowed to become the Prime Minister of West Africa?

Mr. Hopkinson

That is a purely hypothetical case which affects not Central African Federation but the Gold Coast.

Sir F. Soskice

Time is pressing and I do not think that the answer given by the Minister of State for Colonial Affairs will

have satisfied my hon. Friends, but since obviously they will not get a better answer, I would advise them to register their discontent by taking this matter into the Division Lobby.

Mr. Dugdale

I only rise to say that in common with many other hon. Members I would have liked to support my hon. Friend, but owing to the fact that the Government have imposed what virtually amounts to a Guillotine, it is impossible for us to do so.

Question put, "That the Clause be read a Second time."

The Committee divided: Ayes, 165; Noes, 188.

Division No. 203.] AYES [10.13 p.m.
Adams, Richard Hannan, W. Proctor, W. T.
Albu, A. H. Hargreaves, A. Pursey, Cmdr. H
Allen, Arthur (Bosworth) Harrison, J. (Nottingham, E.) Reeves, J.
Attlee, Rt. Hon. C. R. Hastings, S. Rhodes, H.
Awbery, S. S. Hayman, F. H. Richards, R.
Bacon, Miss Alice Holman, P. Roberts, Albert (Normanton)
Baird, J. Houghton, Douglas Royle, C.
Bartley, P. Hudson, James (Ealing, N.) Shackleton, E. A. A
Beattie, J. Hynd, H. (Accrington) Short, E. W.
Benn, Hon. Wedgwood Irving, W. J. (Wood Green) Shurmer, P. L. E.
Blackburn, F. Johnson, James (Rugby) Silverman, Julius (Erdington)
Blenkinsop, A. Jones, David (Hartlepool) Simmons, C. J. (Brierley Hill)
Blyton, W. R. Jones, Frederick Elwyn (West Ham, S.) Skeffington, A. M.
Boardman, H. Jones, Jack (Rotherham) Slater, Mrs. H. (Stoke-on-Trent)
Bowles, F. G. Jones, T. W. (Merioneth) Slater, J. (Durham, Sedgefield)
Braddock, Mrs. Elizabeth Keenan, W. Smith, Ellis (Stoke, S.)
Brockway, A. F. Kenyon, C. Sorensen, R. W.
Brook, Dryden (Halifax) King, Dr. H. M. Soskice, Rt. Hon. Sir Frank
Broughton, Dr. A. D. D. Lee, Frederick (Newton) Sparks, J. A.
Burke, W. A. Lever, Leslie (Ardwick) Stewart, Michael (Fulham, E.)
Burton, Miss F. E. Lewis, Arthur Strachey, Rt. Hon. J.
Butler, Herbert (Hackney, S.) Lindgren, G. S. Stross, Dr. Barnett
Castle Mrs. B. A. Logan, D. G. Summerskill, Rt. Hon. E
Champion, A. J. MacColl, J. E. Swingler, S. T.
Collick, P. H. McGhee, H. G. Taylor, Bernard (Mansfield)
Corbet, Mrs. Freda McLeavy, F Taylor, John (West Lothian)
Cove, W. G. Mainwaring, W. H. Taylor, Rt. Hon. Robert (Morpeth)
Craddock, George (Bradford, S.) Mallalieu, E. L. (Brigg) Thomas, David (Aberdare)
Grossman, R. H. S. Mason, Roy Thomas, Iorwerth (Rhondda, W.)
Davies, Harold (Leek) Mellish, R. J. Thomas, Ivor Owen (Wrekin)
Davies, Stephen (Merthyr) Mitchison, G. R. Thomson, George (Dundee, E.)
Deer, G. Monslow, W. Thornton, E.
Dugdale, Rt. Hon. John (W. Bromwich) Moody, A. S. Turner-Samuels, M.
Ede, Rt. Hon. J. C. Morgan, Dr. H. B. W. Ungoed-Thomas, Sir Lynn
Edwards, Rt. Hon. Ness (Caerphilly) Morley, R. Viant, S. P.
Evans, Albert (Islington, S.W.) Morris, Percy (Swansea, W.) Weitzman, D.
Evans, Edward (Lowestoft) Mort, D. L. Wells, William (Walsall)
Fernyhough, E. Moyle, A. Wheeldon, W. E.
Fienburgh, W. Mulley, F. W While, Mrs. Eirene (E. Flint)
Finch, H. J. Murray, J. D. While, Henry (Derbyshire, N.E.)
Fletcher, Eric (Islington, E.) Nally, W. Whiteley, Rt. Hon. W.
Follick, M. Neal, Harold (Bolsover) Wigg, George
Foot, M. M. Noel-Baker, Rt. Hon. P. J Wilcock, Group Capt. C. A. B.
Fraser, Thomas (Hamilton) Orbach, M. Wilkins, W. A.
Freeman, John (Watford) Padley, W. E Willey, F. T
Gaitskell, Rt. Hon. H. T. N Paget, R. T. Williams, David (Neath)
Gibson, C. W. Paling, Rt. Hon. W. (Dearne Valley) Williams, Rev. Llywelyn (Abertillery)
Glanville, James Paling, Will T. (Dewsbury) Williams, Ronald, (Wigan)
Greenwood, Anthony (Rossendale) Palmer, A. M. F. Williams, W. R. (Droylsden)
Grey, C. F. Pannell, Charles Wilson, Rt. Hon. Harold (Huyton)
Griffiths, David (Rother Valley) Pargiter, G. A. Winterbottom, Ian (Nottingham, C.)
Griffiths, Rt. Hon. James (Llanelly) Parker, J. Winterbottom, Richard (Brightside)
Griffiths, William (Exchange) Paton, J. Younger, Rt. Hon. K.
Hale, Leslie Pearson, A.
Hall, John T. (Gateshead, W.) Peart, T. F. TELLERS FOR THE AYES:
Hamilton, W. W. Price, Joseph T. (Westhoughton) Mr. Popplewell and
Mr. Kenneth Robinson.
NOES
Aitken, W. T. Harden, J. R. E. Ormsby-Gore, Hon. W. D.
Allan, R. A. (Paddington, S.) Hare, Hon. J. H. Orr, Capt. L. P. S.
Alport, C. J. M. Harrison, Col. J. H. (Eye) Orr-Ewing, Charles Ian (Hendon, N.)
Arbuthnot, John Harvey, Air Cdre. A. V. (Macclesfield) Partridge, E.
Ashton, H. (Chelmsford) Hay, John Perkins, W. R. D.
Assheton, Rt. Hon. R. (Blackburn, W.) Heald, Sir Lionel Peto, Brig. C. H. M.
Baldock, Lt.-Cmdr. J. M. Heath, Edward Peyton, J. W. W.
Baldwin, A. E. Higgs, J. M. C. Pickthorn, K. W. M.
Banks, Col. C. Hill, Dr. Charles (Luton) Pilkington, Capt. R. A.
Barber, Anthony Hill, Mrs. E. (Wythenshawe) Powell, J. Enoch
Barlow, Sir John Hinchingbrooke, Viscount Price, Henry (Lewisham, W.)
Beach, Maj. Hicks Hirst, Geoffrey Prior-Palmer, Brig. O. L.
Bell, Philip (Bolton, E.) Holland-Martin, C. J. Profumo, J. D.
Bennett, F. M. (Reading, N.) Holmes, Sir Stanley (Harwich) Raikes, Sir Victor
Bennett, Dr. Reginald (Gosport) Hopkinson, Rt. Hon. Henry Rayner, Brig. R.
Black, C. W. Hornsby-Smith, Miss M. P. Redmayne, M.
Boyd-Carpenter, J. A. Horobin, I. M. Rees-Davies, W. R.
Boyle, Sir Edward Horsbrugh, Rt. Hon. Florence Renton, D. L. M.
Braine, B. R. Howard, Hon. Greville (St. Ives) Roberts, Peter (Heeley)
Braithwaite, Sir Albert (Harrow, W.) Hudson, Sir Austin (Lewisham, N.) Robinson, Roland (Blackpool, S.)
Braithwaite, Lt.-Cdr. G. (Bristol, N.W.) Hudson, W. R. A. (Hull, N.) Roper, Sir Harold
Brooke, Henry (Hampstead) Hulbert, Wing Cdr. N. J. Russell, R. S.
Buchan-Hepburn, Rt. Hon. P. G. T. Hutchinson, Sir Geoffrey (Ilford, N.) Scott, R. Donald
Billiard, D. G. Hylton-Foster, H. B. H. Shepherd, William
Bullus, Wing Commander E. E. Jenkins, Robert (Dulwich) Simon, J. E. S. (Middlesbrough, W.)
Burden, F. F. A. Jennings, R. Smithers, Peter (Winchester)
Butcher, Sir Herbert Johnson, Eric (Blackley) Speir, R. M.
Campbell, Sir David Jones, A. (Hall Green) Spens, Rt. Hon. Sir P. (Kensington, S.)
Carr, Robert Joynson-Hicks, Hon. L. W. Stanley, Capt. Hon. Richard
Cary, Sir Robert Kaberry, D. Stevens, G. P.
Channon, H. Kerr, H. W. Steward, W. A. (Woolwich, W.)
Clarke, Col. Ralph (East Grinstead) Lambert, Hon. G. Stoddart-Scott, Col. M.
Clarke, Brig. Terence (Portsmouth, W.) Legge-Bourke, Maj. E. A. H. Storey, S.
Colegate, W. A. Legh, Hon. Peter (Petersfield) Strauss, Henry (Norwich, S.)
Cooper-Key, E. M. Linstead, Sir H. N. Summers, G. S.
Crookshank, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. F. C. Lloyd, Rt. Hon. Selwyn (Wirral) Sutcliffe, Sir Harold
Crosthwaite-Eyre, Col. O. E. Lockwood, Lt.-Col. J. C. Taylor, Charles (Eastbourne)
Crouch, R. F. Lucas, Sir Jocelyn (Portsmouth, S.) Thomas, Leslie (Canterbury)
Crowder, Sir John (Finchley) Lucas, P. B. (Brentford) Thompson, Lt.-Cdr. R. (Croydon, W.)
Crowder, Petre (Ruislip—Northwood) Lucas-Tooth, Sir Hugh Thorneycroft, Rt. Hn. Peter (Monmouth)
Davidson, Viscountess Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. O. Touche, Sir Gordon
Deedes, W. F. McCorquodale, Rt. Hon. M. S. Turner, H. F. L.
Dodds-Parker, A. D. Macdonald, Sir Peter Turton, R. H.
Donner, Sir P. W. Mackie, J. H. (Galloway) Vane, W. M. F.
Doughty, C. J. A. Maclean, Fitzroy Vaughan-Morgan, J. K.
Drayson, G. B. Macleod, Rt. Hon. Iain (Enfield, W.) Wakefield, Edward (Derbyshire, W.)
Fell, A. Macmillan, Rt. Hon. Harold (Bromley) Wakefield, Sir Wavell (St. Marylebone)
Finlay, Graeme Maitland, Comdr. J. F. W. (Horncastle) Walker-Smith, D. C
Fisher, Nigel Manningham-Buller, Sir R. E Ward, Miss I. (Tynemouth)
Fleetwood-Hesketh, R. F Markham, Major Sir S. F. Waterhouse, Capt. Rt. Hon. C.
Ford, Mrs. Patricia Marlowe, A. A. H. Webbe, Sir H. (London & Westminster)
Foster, John Marples, A. E. Wellwood, W.
Fraser, Hon. Hugh (Stone) Marshall, Sir Sidney (Sutton) Williams, Gerald (Tonbridge)
Fraser, Sir Ian (Morecambe & Lonsdale) Maydon, Lt.-Comdr. S. L. C. Williams, Sir Herbert (Croydon, E.)
Gammans, L. D. Mellor, Sir John Williams, Paul (Sunderland, S.)
Garner-Evans, E. H. Molson, A. H. E. Williams, R. Dudley (Exeter)
Godber, J. B. Nabarro, G. D. N. Wills, G.
Gough, C. F. H. Nicholls, Harmar Wilson, Geoffrey (Truro)
Gower, H. R. Nicholson, Godfrey (Farnham) Wood, Hon. R.
Graham, Sir Fergus Nicolson, Nigel (Bournemouth, E.) York, C.
Gridley, Sir Arnold Nield, Basil (Chester)
Grimston, Hon. John (St. Albans) Noble, Cmdr. A. H. P. TELLERS FOR THE NOES:
Grimston, Sir Robert (Westbury) Nugent, G. R. H. Mr. Srudholme and Mr. Oakshott.
Hall, John (Wycombe) O'Neill, Phelim (Co. Antrim, N.)

Bill reported, without Amendment.

10.20 p.m.

Mr. Lyttelton

I beg to move, "That the Bill be now read the Third time."

I shall have some difficulty in keeping in order upon the Third Reading after such an extensive discussion in Committee, but whatever may be the differences which divide us upon the subject of Central African Federation it can at least be said that the Bill has not been passed without due discussion. On no less than 11 occasions has the House been asked to consider the matter. Owing to the limitations under which the Government are obliged to act during the Committee stage, much of the Committee stage has been, I think desirably, of the nature of a Second Reading debate, and I do not propose, therefore, to detain the House for more than a few minutes on Third Reading.

I wish to say what I have said before—that the discussions which have taken place on these 11 separate occasions have been valuable and of benefit to Her Majesty's Government. Many of the extra safeguards which have been introduced have been due to the suggestions made from both sides of the House. This is the last occasion on which we shall see the legislation before the debate on the Order in Council, and if I detain the House at all I ask to be excused upon the grounds that I have been heavily under fire from both below the Gangway and above the Gangway. The hon. and learned Member for Northampton (Mr. Paget), rather like a modern detergent, whipped himself into a lather earlier this afternoon.

Mr. Jack Jones (Rotherham)

He could never wash the right hon. Gentleman white.

Mr. Lyttelton

I have been heavily under fire from both below and above the Gangway. I have been patronised by the "Manchester Guardian" and lectured by "The Times." Under this three-pronged attack I cannot remain entirely silent on this last occasion, but I will confine myself to saying that in Central Africa we are to try an experiment to see whether the forces released, the pent-up pressures, can be harnessed and directed towards the good of all these races or whether Africa is to sink back because the Continent is unable to absorb without convulsion the new knowledge which the modern world has brought to it through its new communications.

While we have finished with the Bill, we have not finished with our responsibilities. We still retain, above all, in respect of the daily life of the African, a liability, particularly towards the two Northern Territories, which Federation will not alter. The success of federation will depend, like the success of Government everywhere, upon the officer in the field, whether he is a European or an African, who has to explain and sometimes to enforce the law.

Following the wise and statesmanlike speech which the Leader of the Opposition made, I hope very much that all parties in the House, when Federation becomes law, will combine on broad, humane and liberal lines to make Federa- tion an example of how this great problem of 20th century Africa should be handled and solved. I appeal with every force I can command to all those who have to work it and make it live in the Territories themselves to face the challenge and make this one more monument to the British genius for government combined with the British love and respect for freedom and for the dignity and the rights of individual man.

10.25 p.m.

Mr. J. Griffiths

It is true that we have discussed this matter on numerous occasions, but we have never been called upon to make such a momentous decision about any of the Commonwealth Territories as we are being asked to do about Africa, and at a time when it is troubling the conscience of every hon. Member in this country.

Those of us who attended the Committee stage feel that we had to deal with some of the Amendments in a period of time completely inadequate. I asked the Leader of the House for another day. We were told that it was not possible for us to have it. I did not propose to sit late the other night to discuss, in a thinly-attended House, matters of such very great importance.

There will be one other occasion on which we shall require a full day—that will be essential—when we shall discuss the Motion for an Order in Council. Hon. Members opposite sometimes say we are anti-settler, or anti-European. We are not anti-anything. We recognise that we have a special responsibility for the Colonies and we recognise the need for constant vigilance.

The Secretary of State for the Colonies has referred to the criticisms which have been made. They have been criticisms of himself, of Her Majesty's Government and of the Europeans in Central Africa. We speak of partnership. It is time we gave tangible proof of what we mean. Between now and the occasion when we debate the approval of the Order in Council there will be time to show tangible proof that when we speak of partnership we mean partnership and not domination.

From the outset of the discussions, from the draft scheme to this last scheme we have taken the view that the economic effects are conditional on the consent of the people. Because that consent has not been given, and for the additional reason that we think essential safeguards are weakened in a scheme of this kind, we oppose it, and I ask my right hon. and hon. Friends to register their protest

by voting against the Third Reading tonight.

Question put, "That the Bill be now read the Third time."

The House divided: Ayes, 188; Noes, 165.

Division No. 204.] AYES [10.30 p.m.
Aitken, W. T. Harden, J. R. E. Ormsby-Gore, Hon. W. D.
Allan, R. A. (Paddington, S.) Hare, Hon. J. H. Orr, Capt. L. P. S.
Alport, C. J. M. Harrison, Col. J. H. (Eye) Orr-Ewing, Charles Ian (Hendon, N.)
Arbuthnot, John Harvey, Air Cdre. A. V. (Macclesfield) Partridge, E.
Ashton, H. (Chelmsford) Hay, John Perkins, W. R. D.
Assheton, Rt. Hon. R. (Blackburn, W.) Heald, Sir Lionel Peto, Brig. C. H. M.
Baldock, Lt.-Cmdr. J. M. Heath, Edward Peyton, J. W. W.
Baldwin, A. E. Higgs, J. M. C. Pickthorn, K. W. M.
Banks, Col. C. Hill, Dr. Charles (Luton) Pilkington, Capt. R. A.
Barber, Anthony Hill, Mrs. E. (Wythenshawe) Powell, J. Enoch
Barlow, Sir John Hinchingbrooke, Viscount Price, Henry (Lewisham, W.)
Beach, Maj. Hicks Hirst, Geoffrey Prior-Palmer, Brig. C. L.
Bell, Philip (Bolton, E.) Holland-Martin, C. J. Profumo, J. D.
Bennett, F. M. (Reading, N.) Holmes, Sir Stanley (Harwich) Raikes, Sir Victor
Bennett, Dr. Reginald (Gosport) Hopkinson, Rt. Hon. Henry Rayner, Brig. R.
Black, C. W. Hornsby-Smith, Miss M. P. Redmayne, M.
Boyd-Carpenter, J. A. Horobin, I. M. Rees-Davies, W. R.
Boyle, Sir Edward Horsbrugh, Rt. Hon. Florence Renton, D. L. M.
Braine, B. R. Howard, Hon. Greville (St. Ives) Roberts, Peter (Heeley)
Braithwaite, Sir Albert (Harrow, W.) Hudson, Sir Austin (Lewisham, N.) Robinson, Roland (Blackpool, S.)
Braithwaite, Lt.-Cdr. G. (Bristol, N.W.) Hudson, W. R. A. (Hull, N.) Roper, Sir Harold
Brooke, Henry (Hampstead) Hulbert, Wing. Cdr. N. J. Russell, R. S.
Buchan-Hepburn, Rt. Hon. P. G. T. Hutchinson, Sir Geoffrey (Ilford, N.) Scott, R. Donald
Bullard, D. G. Hylton-Foster, H. B. H. Shepherd, William
Bullus, Wing Commander E. E. Jenkins, Robert (Dulwich) Simon, J. E. S. (Middlesbrough, W.)
Burden, F. F. A. Jennings, R. Smithers, Peter (Winchester)
Butcher, Sir Herbert Johnson, Eric (Blackley) Speir, R. M.
Campbell, Sir David Jones, A. (Hall Green) Spens, Rt. Hon. Sir P. (Kensington, S.)
Carr, Robert Joynson-Hicks, Hon. L. W Stanley, Capt. Hon. Richard
Cary, Sir Robert Kaberry, D. Stevens, G. P.
Channon, H. Kerr, H. W. Steward, W. A. (Woolwich, W.)
Clarke, Col. Ralph (East Grinstead) Lambert, Hon. G. Stoddart-Scott, Col. M.
Clarke, Brig. Terence (Portsmouth, W.) Legge-Bourke, Maj. E. A. H. Storey, S.
Colegate, W. A. Legh, Hon. Peter (Petersfield) Strauss, Henry (Norwich, S.)
Cooper-Key, E. M. Linstead, Sir H. N. Summers, G. S.
Crookshank, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. F. C. Lloyd, Rt. Hon. Selwyn (Wirral) Sutcliffe, Sir Harold
Crosthwaite-Eyre, Col. O. E. Lockwood, Lt.-Col. J. C. Taylor, Charles (Eastbourne)
Crouch, R. F. Lucas, Sir Jocelyn (Portsmouth, S.) Thomas, Leslie (Canterbury)
Crowder, Sir John (Finchley) Lucas, P. B. (Brentford) Thompson, Lt.-Cdr. R. (Croydon, W.)
Crowder, Petre (Ruislip—Northwood) Lucas-Tooth, Sir Hugh Thorneycroft, Rt. Hn. Peter (Monmouth)
Davidson, Viscountess Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. O. Touche, Sir Gordon
Deedes, W. F. McCorquodale, Rt. Hon. M. S. Turner, H. F. L.
Dodds-Parker, A. D. Macdonald, Sir Peter Turton, R. H.
Donner, Sir P. W. Mackie, J. H. (Galloway) Vane, W. M. F.
Doughty, C. J. A. Maclean, Fitzroy Vaughan-Morgan, J. K.
Drayson, G. B. Macleod, Rt. Hon. Iain (Enfield, W.) Wakefield, Edward (Derbyshire, W.)
Fell, A. Macmillan, Rt. Hon. Harold (Bromley) Wakefield, Sir Wavell (St. Marylebone)
Finlay, Graeme Maitland, Cmdr. J. F. W. (Horncastle) Walker-Smith, D. C.
Fisher, Nigel Manningham-Buller, Sir R. E. Ward, Miss I. (Tynemouth)
Fleetwood-Hesketh, R. F. Markham, Major Sir S. F. Waterhouse, Capt. Rt. Hon. C.
Ford, Mrs. Patricia Marlowe, A. A. H. Webbe, Sir H. (London & Westminster)
Foster, John Marples, A. E. Wellwood, W.
Fraser, Hon. Hugh (Stone) Marshall, Sir Sidney (Sutton) Williams, Gerald (Tonbridge)
Fraser, Sir Ian (Morecambe & Lonsdale) Maydon, Lt.-Comdr. S. L. C. Williams, Sir Herbert (Croydon, E.)
Gammans, L. D. Mellor, Sir John Williams, Paul (Sunderland, S.)
Garner-Evans, E. H. Molson, A. H. E. Williams, R. Dudley (Exeter)
Godber, J. B. Nabarro, G. D. N. Wills, G.
Cough, C. F. H. Nicholls, Harmar Wilson, Geoffrey (Truro)
Gower, H. R. Nicholson, Godfrey (Farnham) Wood, Hon. R.
Graham, Sir Fergus Nicolson, Nigel (Bournemouth, E.) York, C.
Gridley, Sir Arnold Nield, Basil (Chester)
Grimston, Hon. John (St. Albans) Noble, Cmdr. A. H. P. TELLERS FOR THE AYES:
Grimston, Sir Robert (Westbury) Nugent, G. R. H. Mr. Studholme and Mr. Oakshott.
Hall, John (Wycombe) O'Neill, Phelim (Co. Antrim, N.)
NOES
Adams, Richard Bartley, P. Blyton, W. R.
Albu, A. H. Beattie, J. Boardman, H.
Attlee, Rt. Hon. C. R. Benn, Hon. Wedgwood Bowles, F. G.
Awbery, S. S. Bing, G. H. C. Braddock, Mrs. Elizabeth
Bacon, Miss Alice Blackburn, F. Brockway, A. F.
Baird, J. Blenkinsop, A. Brook, Dryden (Halifax)
Broughton, Dr. A. D. D Jones, Frederick Elwyn (West Ham, S.) Royle, C.
Burke, W. A. Jones, Jack (Rotherham) Shackleton, E. A. A
Burton, Miss F. E. Keenan, W. Short, E. W.
Butler, Herbert (Hackney, S.) Kenyon, C. Shurmer, P. L. E.
Castle, Mrs. B. A. King, Dr. H. M. Silverman, Julius (Erdington)
Champion, A. J. Lee, Frederick (Newton) Simmons, C, J. (Brierley Hill)
Collick, P. H. Lever, Leslie (Ardwick) Skeffington, A. M.
Corbet, Mrs. Freda Lewis, Arthur Slater, Mrs. H, (Stoke-on-Trent)
Cove, W. G. Lindgren, G. S. Slater, J. (Durham, Sedgefield)
Craddock, George (Bradford, S.) Logan, D. G. Smith, Ellis (Stoke, S.)
Crossman, R. H. S. MacColl, J. E. Sorensen, R. W.
Davies, Harold (Leek) McGhee, H. G. Soskice, Rt. Hon. Sir Frank
Davies, Stephen (Merthyr) McLeavy, F. Sparks, J. A.
Deer, G. Mainwaring, W. H. Stewart, Michael (Fulham, E.)
Dugdale, Rt. Hon. John (W. Bromwich) Mallalieu, E. L. (Brigg) Strachey, Rt. Hon. J.
Ede, Rt. Hon. J. C. Mason, Roy Stross, Dr. Barnett
Edwards, Rt. Hon. Ness (Caerphilly) Mellish, R. J. Summerskill, Rt. Hon. E
Evans, Albert (Islington, S.W.) Mitchison, G. R. Swingler, S. T.
Evans, Edward (Lowestoft) Monslow, W. Taylor, Bernard (Mansfield)
Fernyhough, E. Moody, A. S. Taylor, John (West Lothian)
Fienburgh, W. Morgan, Dr. H. B. W. Taylor, Rt. Hon. Robert (Morpeth)
Finch, H. J. Morley, R. Thomas, David (Aberdare)
Fletcher, Eric (Islington, E.) Morris, Percy (Swansea, W.) Thomas, Iorwerth (Rhondda, W.)
Follick, M. Mort, D. L. Thomas, Ivor Owen (Wrekin)
Foot, M. M. Moyle, A. Thomson, George (Dundee, E.)
Fraser, Thomas (Hamilton) Mulley, F. W. Thornton, E.
Freeman, John (Watford) Murray, J. D. Turner-Samuels, M.
Gaitskell, Rt. Hon. H. T. N. Nally, W. Ungoed-Thomas, Sir Lynn
Gibson, C. W. Neal, Harold (Bolsover) Viant, S. P.
Glanville, James Noel-Baker, Rt. Hon. P. J Weitzman, D.
Greenwood, Anthony (Rossendale) Orbach, M. Wells, William (Walsall)
Grey, C. F. Padley, W. E. Wheeldon, W. E.
Griffiths, David (Rother Valley) Paget, R. T. White, Mrs. Eirene (E. Flint)
Griffiths, Rt. Hon. James (Llanelly) Paling, Rt. Hon. W. (Dearne Valley) White, Henry (Derbyshire, N.E.)
Griffiths, William (Exchange) Paling, Will T. (Dewsbury) Whiteley, Rt. Hon. W.
Hale, Leslie (Oldham, W.) Palmer, A. M. F. Wigg, George
Hall, John T. (Gateshead, W.) Panned, Charles Wilcock, Group Capt. C. A. B.
Hamilton, W. W. Pargiter, G. A. Wilkins, W. A.
Hannan, W. Parker, J. Willey, F. T.
Hargreaves, A. Paton, J. Williams, David (Neath)
Harrison, J. (Nottingham, E.) Pearson, A. Williams, Rev. Llywelyn (Abertillery)
Hastings, S. Peart, T. F. Williams, Ronald (Wigan)
Hayman, F. H. Price, Joseph T. (Westhoughton) Williams, W. R. (Droylsden)
Holman, P. Proctor, W. T. Wilson, Rt. Hon. Harold (Huyton)
Houghton, Douglas Pursey, Cmdr. H. Winterbottom, Ian (Nottingham, C.)
Hudson, James (Ealing, N.) Reeves, J. Winterbottom, Richard (Brightside)
Hynd, H. (Accrington) Rhodes, H. Younger, Rt. Hon. K.
Irving, W. J. (Wood Green) Richards, R.
Johnson, James (Rugby) Roberts, Albert (Normanton) TELLERS FOR THE NOES:
Jones, David (Hartlepool) Robinson, Kenneth (St. Pancras, N.) Mr. Popplewell and
Mr. Arthur Allen.

Bill accordingly read the Third time, and passed.

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