HC Deb 31 July 1953 vol 518 cc1675-8
The Minister of Supply (Mr. Duncan Sandys)

On 24th June I informed the House that, following upon the successful atomic explosion at Monte Bello last year, we were going ahead with the development of atomic weapons to meet various service requirements and that arrangements were being made to carry out trials in Australia.

The proving ground for these atomic weapon trials is now being prepared on the Woomera Rocket Range. The trials will be conducted by Sir William Penney and a team of scientists from the Ministry of Supply. They will be assisted by Australian scientists, who have accepted responsibility for certain important tasks in connection with the observation and measurement of the results.

As at Monte Bello, the opportunity will be taken to obtain further data of interest to the Fighting Services and Civil Defence authorities. This will include tests of equipment which will be organised by the Royal Australian Navy, the Australian Army and the Royal Australian Air Force.

I am now in a position to announce that, with the agreement of the Australian Government, these next trials will take place in October.

Mr. Ede

On the face of it, this statement refers only to Commonwealth participation. Is it to be confined to Commonwealth people or is there any cooperation between us and the American scientists in this matter?

Mr. Sandys

The House is well aware of the attitude of Her Majesty's Government, namely, that we are anxious for there to be a full and free exchange of information on this important subject, to which so much effort and money have been devoted. We should be ready at any time to consider, on a reciprocal basis, any arrangements which can be made for an exchange of information, in particular, of course, with the United States of America.

Mr. Marlowe

Can my right hon. Friend say on what date in October this will take place, and can he also say whether the Press will be able to see this explosion?

Mr. Sandys

The timing of the test will depend upon a number of factors, one of the most important being the meteorological conditions, to ensure that the wind is in the right direction to prevent contamination. I am therefore not now in a position, and shall not be until the very last moment, to say exactly on what date these trials will take place. I am considering the question of whether the Press should be present. I am going to Australia in a few weeks' time and shall discuss the matter with the Australian Government.

Mr. Robens

I should like to pursue further the point put by my right hon. Friend the Member for South Shields (Mr. Ede) regarding our association with the U.S.A. on this matter. Hundreds of millions of pounds have been spent, and are being spent, on scientific research into atomic energy. The Minister has this morning indicated that he would welcome association and co-operation. May I ask him whether he has in fact, or the Government have, taken any active steps recently to ascertain whether it is possible to obtain this co-operation and association with the United States in these tests on a reciprocal basis, or has he left the matter to an expression in this House?

Mr. Sandys

We have made quite sure that the American Administration is aware of our extreme readiness to have a frank exchange of information. But the position in the United States, as the right hon. Gentleman will know, is governed by legislation. There can be no doubt in the minds of members of the United States Government of our readiness to exchange information. I believe that as our atomic development proceeds it is becoming recognised in the United States that we have more and more to offer and that it would not by any means be a one-sided affair.

Mr. Robens

Does that mean that our allies, the United States, refuse to cooperate with us in this matter?

Mr. Sandys

It is not a question of refusal, but of security, which is of extreme importance in this matter. We are the last to criticise the United States for the very stringent security precautions which they have taken. Nothing I have said implies the slightest criticism of the United States. It is a very serious matter to decide to impart information of this kind to any outside authority over whose security arrangements you have not complete control. But as I have said, our views have been made known. We think such an exchange would be mutually beneficial, and we are well able to provide the same kind of security safeguards as are provided in the United States. I do not think I can pursue this matter further by question and answer.

Mr. Driberg

Does the right hon. Gentleman's statement mean that scientists are concentrating almost exclusively still on the development of atomic energy for defence purposes? Is it possible for him to say whether, as international tension eases, it will be possible for them to devote more and more attention to the development of atomic energy for peaceful and industrial purposes?

Mr. Sandys

My statement was related to the arrangements being made to test certain atomic weapons and naturally I referred to the military side. But we are spending increasing sums of money on research into the civil applications of atomic energy. Only recently we started the construction of the first experimental power plant to be driven by heat generated from atomic energy.

Mr. Ellis Smith

While not asking the Minister to commit himself this morning, may I ask him to bear in mind that the Prime Minister promised me that at an opportune time the history of the development of atomic power will be published by the Government? Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that those who were associated with the men who were connected with this work in its infancy are anxious to give credit where it is due so that those who worked so hard and long in the Manchester area should have their efforts placed on record and credit given to them?

Mr. Sandys

A great deal of information has already been published about developments in this field. I can assure the hon. Gentleman that, subject to overriding considerations of security, we shall continue to make information available. I agree that in those fields of science which are under the cloak of security, it is most important that as far as possible the achievements of scientists should be made known. But I do not think that there has been any lack of publicity about those who have contributed towards development in this field. There are great names which spring to one's mind and which are widely known throughout the world.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That this House do now adjourn."—[Mr. Buchan-Hepburn.]

Mr. Frederick Gough (Horsham)

On a point of order. I apologise for intervening at this stage, but while not detracting in any way from the importance of the statement made by my right hon. Friend, I would point out that it has taken up ten minutes. I wonder whether the equally important subject of officers' retired pay could, therefore, occupy a full hour, especially as I understand that one of the other subjects down for debate is not to be pursued this morning.

Mr. Speaker

It is true that the hon. Member for Leek (Mr. Harold Davies) does not intend to raise the subject in the time allocated to him after 4 o'clock, so I have half an hour in hand. I hope to distribute that time among the various subjects. I understand that there is also to be an interruption this morning for a Commission in the other place. I think that it would be wise to extend the first subject for debate until 12.15, and see how we get on.

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