§ Motion made, and Question proposed, "That this House do now adjourn."—[Mr. Redmayne.]
§ 10.0 p.m.
§ Mr. J. E. S. Simon (Middlesbrough, West)I want to draw the attention of the Parliamentary Secretary to various questions relating to the loss of shopping facilities in Middlesbrough. I hope to deal with the matter fairly generally. I understand that the right hon. Member for Middlesbrough, East (Mr. Marquand) will also speak before the Parliamentary Secretary replies, and I will allow him time to develop his argument.
In 1942, the town of Middlesbrough, which had not been particularly well served before the war by shopping facilities, suffered a very great disaster. Three of the leading departmental stores—Messrs. Binns, Messrs. Dixon and Benson and Messrs. Upton—were destroyed by incendiary action by a small boy. That was due primarily and immediately to juvenile crime, but unquestionably it was the war conditions which prevented those fires from being brought under proper and immediate control. The matter did not rest there because in the same year the Middlesbrough Co-operative Society's main store in the Linthorpe Road—a very fine store and very well run—was destroyed by enemy action.
That resulted in a loss to Middlesbrough, even after the energetic reorganisation of these stores, of no less than 126,000 square feet of shopping facilities; and the remaining shopping facilities of those stores had to be dispersed throughout the town and away from the main shopping centre. That refers only to the private firms. In addition, the Co-operative Society lost their central administrative offices, their board 1666 room, their bank, their grocery, their butchery, their chemist's and optical departments. A wallpaper and paint shop which was rented was also destroyed; and the business is carried on at very great disadvantage, as in the case of the private firms, in temporary, unsuitable, and very much depleted accommodation.
That is the extent of the loss. But in this case one cannot merely measure the loss by what existed before, because two things have happened concurrently. First of all, Middlesbrough was not particularly well served for shopping facilities before the war. Secondly, owing to the development of Middlesbrough, the need has enormously increased. Before the war Middlesbrough was one of those areas which suffered very severely from unemployment. In 1930 it was as much as 50 per cent., although by 1939 it had dropped to 13 per cent. In 1950 it was 2.4 per cent. and today, I think, it is 1.2 per cent.
That means inevitably that there is a tremendous increase in money incomes which can legitimately be laid out in the shops. Concurrently, female employment, which was by no means common in the North-East, has enormously increased—from 17 per cent. in 1939 to 25 per cent. in 1948, and even higher today. The result of the pre-war unemployment was unquestionably to slow down the development of shopping facilities and, indeed, much of the development was unfortunately in these three stores which have been destroyed. It also means that there is a great increase in demand.
Further than that, all round Middlesbrough there has been a great industrial development. New furnaces have been blown in the steel works; vast extensions are still being carried on in the Dorman, Long Works at Laconby; there has been the great LCI. developments at Billing-ham and Wilton. Extensions in housing have been pressed on concurrently. But the development has got completely out of balance, because the shopping facilities have lagged far behind, and the loss to which I have referred has not at all been made up.
With this development there has been naturally a large increase in the population. There has been a large immigration into the area; and, in addition, the people of Middlesbrough being a lusty and vigorous people, there has been a great natural increase. The right hon. 1667 Gentleman who wishes to follow me, who was Minister of Health and is the father of a family, can no doubt expatiate on that, if necessary. The result is this. The population of Middlesbrough in 1939 was about 140,000. Today it is about 147,000. That, too, of Tees-side, which the shops of Middlesbrough serve, as indeed they serve localities far beyond, has gone up from 350,000 to 365,000.
The increase in the need, I think, can be well measured by looking at the Cooperative Society's figures. The number of registered customers in the grocery department has increased since 1942 by 95 per cent., and of the butchery department by 100 per cent., and there are similar increases in other departments. I emphasise that that increase has taken place in spite of the loss of facilities there.
Despite the very great need which these figures show, licences have been persistently refused to allow of the re-development of the shopping centre of Middlesbrough. There was for a time an absolute ban on offices, shops, recreational facilities and so on throughout the country. I would ask my hon. Friend this first of all. Is a distinction drawn between civil and enemy damage, and if so, why? I suggest, with great respect to him, that the criterion ought to be the needs of the people, which are measured by the growth of the population on the one hand, and the loss of facilities to meet their demands on the other.
But even if there is a distinction, which to my mind is a quite illogical one, drawn between civil and military damage. I would draw to his attention, so far as the Co-operative Society's store is conserned, that the damage was caused by enemy action. I know he will view these needs with the utmost sympathy, particularly bearing in mind the pride which all Members of our party take in the part which Conservative Governments in the past, by the great statutes of 1846 and 1876, played in the development of the Co-operative Movement.
My hon. Friend, in a courteous interview which he gave to representatives of Middlesbrough on 25th June, said that there was a general ban on the rebuilding of shops, with infinitesimal exceptions. But it has been noted by the people of Middlesbrough that there has been even in the locality some rebuilding 1668 of departmental stores. Binns at Sunderland was destroyed by war action and has been rebuilt. Shepherd's at Gateshead was destroyed by civil action in 1946 and was rebuilt in 1947. I understand that McAlpine's are putting up a large new office and shop block in The Headrow at Leeds. I ask my hon. Friend why Middlesbrough should be penalised in comparison with neighbouring towns.
It is felt that the North-East area has been unfairly treated. I ask my hon. Friend how the northern region, which gets only £500,000 altogether, compares with the rest of the country. How do the figures compare per head of the population and with the damage that was done in the area? Is weightage given to the growth of the population and to the fact that the North-East suffered grievously in the economic slump of 1929 and 1930 and the effects that persisted until the war. Is weightage given to the industrial development, as well as to the ordinary recovery of trade, which has taken place since the war?
If these factors are taken into account, the claims of Middlesbrough are almost unique in the country. I ask my hon. Friend the Parliamentary Secretary what hopes he can hold out in the immediate future to the skilful and energetic productive workers in Middlesbrough—the steel workers, the engineers, the chemical workers, shipbuilders, dockers, and so on—whom both the right hon. Member for Middlesbrough, East and I are so proud to represent. What hope does my hon. Friend hold out to these men and then-wives that their hard-earned incomes can be conveniently laid out to satisfy their moderate and reasonable needs?
§ 10.12 p.m.
§ Mr. H. A. Marquand (Middlesbrough, East)I want to leave the Parliamentary Secretary ample time to reply to the debate, but nevertheless I should like to intervene to add my support to what has been said by the hon. and learned Member for Middlesbrough, West (Mr. Simon). The hon. and learned Member and I disagree on many things, but in this matter we are in agreement. The town council of Middlesbrough, which, as it happens, is controlled by a Labour majority, is in full support of the request that something be now done to rebuild the shopping facilities which Middlesbrough 1669 lost one way and another during the war. Indeed, I hope that before long it may be possible to go even further and to provide improved and additional facilities for a town which, as the hon. and learned Member has said, is in a unique position.
Middlesbrough is a very young town indeed. It hardly existed 100 years ago. It has a population of between 150,000 and 160,000. It has a natural increase a good deal higher than most towns in Great Britain. When it was growing up and the great steel works and the like were being built there was little labour available for constructing amenities of any kind. During the intervening period between then and the war it suffered a great deal from unemployment with a low level of demand. Consequently it has not had in the past shopping facilities comparable with towns of a similar size and with a similar type of industry.
Although immense new building activities which have been taking place there recently—including the expansion of the steel works of Dorman Long and the Cargo Fleet Company, and the building of the enormous new I.C.I., works at Wilton, on the borders of the town, most of the workers in which live in Middlesbrough—have occupied a large part of the building force, and, therefore, we may be told, make it more difficult for the Parliamentary Secretary and his right hon. Friend to give us what we are asking for. Moreover there are competing demands, since the hospitals are sadly out of date and many of the schools ought to have been closed long ago, several of them having been condemned—one, indeed, actually fell down. Nevertheless, the mere fact that this immense new industrial building is taking place lends force to the feeling that additional shopping facilities are needed. The place is prosperous now in a way that it never was before. These workers in steel, chemical and dock industries are vital. Their work is essential to our national safety, and it is unfortunate that now they are in full employment and prosperous they do not have the opportunities for shopping in their own town which they would like to have.
The Parliamentary Secretary courteously received a deputation and certainly did not turn it down flat. I hope we shall have given him an opportunity tonight 1670 to be even a little more forthcoming than he was on that occasion and to hold out some hope for the future; particularly, perhaps, to be a little more agreeable towards the request of the Middlesbrough Co-operative Society than his regional officer was when he turned down the the request they made.
I must declare an interest here because I am a member of the Co-operative Society, though the amount of dividend I receive from it is necessarily small since I only occasionally buy a handkerchief or some toothpaste or something of that kind on visits to the constituency. I am not sure whether the Parliamentary Secretary was aware until tonight of the severe position in which this Co-operative Society finds itself.
The main part of its store was destroyed by enemy action during the war and the number of its registered customers in the grocery department has increased since then by 95 per cent. and in the butchery department by 100 per cent. while there were similar increases in all the other departments which were housed in that part of the building. I hope, therefore, that the Parliamentary Secretary can hold out some hope for them as well as for the town generally.
§ 10.17 p.m.
§ The Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Works (Mr. Hugh Molson)Naturally I make no complaint that the hon. and learned Member for Middlesbrough, West (Mr. Simon) and the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Middlesbrough, East (Mr. Marquand) should take this opportunity of raising in the House the great needs of Middlesbrough and the surrounding districts for additional shopping facilities. The destruction caused during the war, in some cases by enemy action and in other cases by the malice of small boys, and the great increase of population as a result of industrial and housing development, all establish a very strong case not only for re-building the shopping facilities which were enjoyed in Middlesbrough before the war, but for making such extensions as are needed to meet the greatly improved circumstances of Middlesbrough and district.
The task of administering building licensing is an extremely distasteful one. We inherited it from the Government 1671 which preceded us and it is one of those controls which we have found it necessary to maintain. We have relaxed it as much as possible and we look forward to continuing to relax this building control until it can be abolished completely. In administering it, we have to take two things into account. The first is the need for the work in any specific case where an application is made; the second is the availability of investment, materials, and labour.
It is obvious that so soon after the war, when there are still arrears of maintenance to be made up, when so much war damage has still not been completely made good, when employment is full, and when building for housing estates is at a higher level than it has been since before the war, that it is impossible for us to grant licences in all cases where need can be made out.
Let me begin by making the point that we draw no distinction between private enterprise and the Co-operative Society. When the deputation came to see me no application for a building licence had been received from the Co-operative Society. Even so the applications for £1¼ million for the three departmental stores that had been destroyed was more than it was possible for us to grant at that time, in spite of the fact that the gentlemen who came to see me made out an extraordinarily strong case. If it was not made with the forensic skill of my hon. and gallant Friend, at any rate the facts were all there.
I am glad to know that my answer was not thought to be unsympathetic. I did say to them that although it was impossible to grant licences at this time, they had established a need for additional shopping facilities in Middlesbrough, which would entitle them to some measure of priority as soon as we were able to relax the rules which we apply at the present time. I should like to say to the right hon. Gentleman, now that he has advanced the claim of the Co-operative Society, that it will be considered in exactly the same way as those of the privately owned departmental stores.
My hon. Friend and the right hon. Gentleman have referred to the great development that has taken place in and around Middlesbrough. While they 1672 have established a great need they have also been proving part of my case, which is how extraordinarily difficult it is for us to grant licences for shops. I must be quite plain about it, shops as such do not enjoy any priority at the present time.
This Government have, in the first place, sought to give priority to all industries which could show that they were likely to be able to increase the nation's exports. Further, at the General Election we gave a pledge that we would try to increase very greatly the number of houses built, and, therefore, there has been thrown upon the building industry a great additional burden. To that has to be added the defence programme. Again, my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer announced in his Budget speech that the licensing of factories was going to be very much facilitated.
During the first six months of this year there has been an increase of about 60 per cent. in the value of work licensed for factories as compared with the corresponding period of last year. In the case of Middlesbrough, the developments that are taking place are most remarkable. Imperial Chemical Industries have a programme of development in Wilton amounting in building work still to be done to £10½ million and they have another £2 million of work to do in Billingham. Dorman Long have a programme of about £6½ million.
When we look at the labour position, we find that in the Middlesbrough zone the outstanding vacancies for building operatives, skilled workers of various kinds and labourers, are very much greater than they are in any other zone in the Northern region. There is a programme of work now in hand in the Middlesbrough area which, as far as we can estimate, is likely to keep the building industry fully occupied until the end of 1954.
I turn to answer the questions of my hon. and learned Friend. We do not draw any distinction between damage done by accidents or civil malice and war damage. We try to grant our licences solely upon a consideration of need. I told the deputation which saw me on 25th June that, generally speaking, there is a ban on the building or rebuilding of shops. The two great exceptions to that are that we license shops in newly 1673 built up areas and we also grant licences for alteration of shops in cases of change of user.
The Gateshead and Sunderland jobs to which my hon. and learned Friend referred were licensed in 1947 and 1948 before the stricter rules were introduced as a result of the financial crisis which was threatening in 1951. The Leeds scheme to which he referred was given special treatment in quite exceptional circumstances. It had been necessary, largely because of danger that was arising, to allow the work to be started and it was extremely uneconomic to hold it up; but that was entirely exceptional treatment.
The Ministry tries conscientiously to treat all parts of the country fairly. We believe that, the national ceiling for investment being what it is, the treatment accorded to the North-East Coast is entirely in accordance with what has been done elsewhere. It is not possible for us to make any weightage, as my hon. and learned Friend asked, in the case of districts which perhaps before the war had indifferent shopping facilities. It is hard enough to administer a licensing scheme even according to broad general principles, but if we tried to take into account considerations of that kind, which must necessarily be largely matters of opinion, we should very soon be accused of allowing our prejudices to influence our decisions. We prefer to base them upon financial and statistical calculations.
1674 Both the right hon. Gentleman and my hon. and learned Friend asked what were the hopes for the immediate future. The very prosperity and development of Middlesbrough at present makes it especially difficult for us to grant licences for anything which is not a matter of outstanding national importance. I do not believe that the right hon. Gentleman or my hon. and learned Friend would ask that departmental stores should be given priority over either the development of the steel industry or that of the chemical industry upon which the future prosperity not only of Middlesbrough but of the country as a whole so largely depends.
Therefore, I must say that, because of the great industrial development which is now taking place, it will be difficult for us to grant these licences. At the same time, the whole system of building licensing will be reviewed in the autumn. We are hoping to make it more flexible and more generous, and I repeat what I said to the deputation—that I think that the needs of Middlesbrough for shopping facilities are quite outstanding.
§ The Question having been proposed at Ten o'Clock, and the debate having continued for half an hour, Mr. SPEAKER adjourned the House without Question put, pursuant to the Standing Order.
§ Adjourned at Half-past Ten o'Clock.