§ 19. Mr. Fenner Brockwayasked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will appoint a commission to investigate and report on the consequences of the Order made in Kenya permitting the Armed Forces, the police forces and civilian officials to shoot to kill in the case of those resisting arrest or attempting to escape.
§ Mr. LytteltonNo, Sir.
§ Mr. BrockwayIs the right hon. Gentleman aware of the widespread disquiet in this matter? While recognising the discipline in the Armed Forces and, indeed, the heroism of lonely members of security forces, is he aware that both the Governor and the Commander-in-Chief have sounded warnings on this 2043 question? Soldiers, policemen, lawyers and journalists have brought evidence on this matter, and should not the Government make the kind of inquiry now proposed?
§ Mr. LytteltonNo, Sir. I am glad the hon. Member put down this Question, because I think he is under some misapprehension. There is no blanket authority to shoot to kill. The ordinary principles of English law apply in acting under this Regulation, namely, that only the amount of force may be used that is reasonably necessary in individual circumstances in order to effect an arrest. The hon. Member asked about the statements made both by the Governor and the Commander-in-Chief. I consider those statements are entirely proper. The Commander-in-Chief said, "I will not tolerate breaches of discipline leading to unfair treatment of anybody and all cases in which evidence can be produced will be investigated."
§ Mr. WiggWould the Minister agree that where allegations have been made about beatings and shootings of Africans the charges lie not against the Armed Forces of the Crown but against the Kenya police?
§ Mr. LytteltonSome allegations have been made against the Kenya native police as well as against Europeans. As the hon. Member knows, there have been some convictions already, speaking from memory I think it is five or six. When evidence is produced those concerned will be pursued with severity.
§ Mr. HaleWill the right hon. Gentleman tell us what provisions there are for an inquiry when people are shot and killed in these circumstances? Will he say whether there is an inquest and, if so, by whom it is held, or whether there is an inquiry, and what evidence is called? What rights are given to members of the family to give evidence?
§ Mr. LytteltonCertainly it is open for an inquest to be held. Inquests are held.
§ Mr. HastingsWill the right hon. Gentleman say what precautions he is taking to make sure that all people likely to be involved know the risks they are running if they make any attempt to avoid arrest?
§ Mr. LytteltonWe do all we can in these matters. On the other point, I might 2044 add in reply to the expression of dissent, that all cases of sudden death have to be notified to a magistrate under Section 385 of the Criminal Procedure Code. It is up to him to hold an inquest in any case where he is not satisfied.
§ 29. Mr. Edelmanasked the Secretary of State for the Colonies how many Mau Mau terrorists have been killed, how many wounded and how many captured since 1st April, 1953, or since the nearest convenient date for which statistics are available.
§ Mr. LytteltonFrom the beginning of the emergency to 6th July, 1,300 Africans were killed by the security forces, 514 are believed to have been wounded and 2,673 were taken prisoner. Between 27th March and 6th July, the corresponding figures are 1,062 killed and 349 believed wounded. Between 11th May and 11th July, 223 persons were taken prisoner.
§ Mr. EdelmanIs there not a remarkable and disquieting disproportion between the number killed and the number wounded? Is it not the case now that any African found in a forbidden area may be shot dead without further charge, and is it not carrying ruthlessness to an extreme?
§ Mr. LytteltonThe hon. Member is entirely misinformed upon this matter. Nobody can be shot in any of these areas unless he is resisting arrest or attempting to escape from arrest—that is, in the prohibited areas. The ordinary processes of law, as I have already said, will apply in this case as in others.
§ Mr. J. DugdaleSince the Question asks how many Mau Mau terrorists were killed, are we to understand that the right hon. Gentleman considers that all those Africans who have been shot were actually terrorists? Does he state categorically that they were, or were many others shot who were not terrorists?
§ Mr. LytteltonThat is another Question, but, by and large, my answer to that would be "Yes." It is impossible for anybody to tell when they are resisting arrest—[HON. MEMBERS: "Hear, hear."] Perhaps hon. Members will allow me to finish my sentence? It is impossible to tell whether a man is an ordinary criminal or a member of a terrorist gang.
§ Mr. ShinwellIs it not a very disquieting state of affairs when, in the course of what appears to be three and a half months, 1,300 alleged Mau Mau terrorists have been killed, which is actually twice the number of the fatal casualties which our troops have sustained in Korea since the beginning of the emergency?
§ Mr. LytteltonThe right hon. Gentleman said three months. The figures I gave are from the beginning of the emergency to 6th July, which is a period of about 10 months.
§ Mr. S. SilvermanHow does the right hon. Gentleman account for the fact that, for every one prisoner taken alive some four or five are shot, and would he say how, before arrest, it is possible to say whether the person proposed to be arrested is a terrorist, an ordinary criminal or a law-abiding citizen?
§ Mr. LytteltonThe hon. Gentleman is entirely wrong; his arithmetic is wrong. I gave him the figure of 2,673 terrorists taken prisoner, and said that 1,300 were killed. How he makes that four killed to one wounded I do not know. On the other matter, those who resist arrest in these areas are naturally taken to be breaking the law.
§ Mr. Noel-BakerWould the Secretary of State give us the figures for the latter period again, because we could not hear them?
§ Mr. LytteltonI have already given them. Since 7th March to 6th July, the corresponding figures are 1,063 killed and 232 taken prisoner.
§ Mr. Noel-BakerThe Secretary of State has just given the point about which we are most anxious. It is the universal experience in all military operations that the number of wounded, and very often the number of prisoners, exceeds the number of fatal casualties. Here it is not so, and the disproportion has been increasing in recent months. May I therefore ask the Secretary of State to examine it very closely?
§ Mr. LytteltonThe danger of these matters are well known to me and to the Kenya Government, and the reason for the increase in the figures of killed are that the number of armed gangs in operation and the numbers in each gang have greatly increased recently. We have 2046 been conducting military operations to clean up these gangs.
§ Captain WaterhouseIs my right hon. Friend aware that the majority in this House, in this country and in Africa realise that he is doing his best in extremely difficult conditions?
§ Mr. EdelmanIn view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I shall raise this matter on the Adjournment at the earliest opportunity.
§ 31 and 32. Mr. Pagetasked the Secretary of State for the Colonies (1) what authority he has given to Mr. Davo Davidson to kill Her Majesty's subjects in Kenya;
(2) how many of Her Majesty's subjects in Kenya have been shot by Mr. Davo Davidson.
§ Mr. LytteltonMr. Sidney Davidson is a Kenya Government officer seconded to the police force, and he has therefore the same authority as other members of the security forces. This includes authority to use force, extending to the voluntary causing of death, if this is necessary when persons fail to stop when challenged in protected and special areas. The only engagement in which Mr. Davidson is known to have shot any person was on 27th February this year, when with an inspector of police he killed three terrorists who were wanted for murder and who failed to stop when challenged.
§ Mr. PagetHas the right hon. Gentleman had his attention drawn to the picture of Mr. Davidson which appeared in the "Daily Express," and to the caption underneath it:
It looks as if 'Davo' Davidson, the lone-star gunman of Kenya, has got his way. He has been pleading with military leaders to meet the Mau Mau terrorists with 'Wild West' methods as described by Fenimore Cooper in his novels about the war against the redskins.. Now his plan seems to be in operation.
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. The right hon. Gentleman is not responsible for that.
§ Mr. PagetI was just ending my question. I am asking the right hon. Gentleman whether his attention has been drawn to that, and whether the recent casualty figures do not show that an Indian war of extermination is, in fact, being carried out?
§ Mr. LytteltonThe hon. and learned Gentleman must realise that my responsibilities towards him are to give him accurate information which I derive from official sources.
§ Mr. StokesAre we to gather from what the right hon. Gentleman has said that the report published by the "Daily Express" is, as usual, completely inaccurate?
§ Mr. LytteltonI have given the official figures, and the accuracy of the report in the "Daily Express" can be got by comparing my figures with theirs.
§ Mr. PagetIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that Mr. Davidson is reported to have killed 33 terrorists, which are notched on his automatic rifle and .45 revolver? Can he also throw any light on this report?
§ Mr. LytteltonI cannot go further than give the information which I derived from official sources, when I saw the Question on the Paper, to the effect that the only engagement in which Mr. Davidson is known to have shot any person was on 27th February when he killed three terrorists wanted for murder.
§ Mr. WiggIn view of the unsatisfactory reply given by the Secretary of State, I beg to give notice that I shall raise this matter on the Adjournment, and when I do so I hope that the right hon. Gentleman will tell us—
§ Mr. SpeakerThat is quite irrgular. I think notice has been given beforehand on this.
§ Mr. WiggSurely, Mr. Speaker, I am within the rules of the House when I tell the Secretary of State the point I wish to raise?
§ Mr. SpeakerThe hon. Member has given notice to raise it on the Adjournment, and he must defer further remarks till then. If he wants to write to the Secretary of State, I would not interfere with his right to do so.