§ 26. Mr. Hamiltonasked the Minister of Fuel and Power to what extent, and to whom, the National Coal Board sells coal below its actual cost of production; and what steps he is taking to rectify this state of affairs.
§ Mr. Geoffrey LloydIt is for the National Coal Board to decide the price they should charge for any particular coal, but their prices, taken as a whole, are at present designed to cover the average cost of production, and it follows that some coals are sold at less and some at more than the actual costs of producing them.
§ Mr. HamiltonThat does not answer the Question. Can the Minister tell us precisely who, or which firms, are getting this coal at uneconomic prices? Does he not realise that it amounts to a subsidy from a nationalised industry to a private concern? Will he be good enough to publish in the OFFICIAL REPORT, if he has not them here, the names of the firms who are getting this coal at uneconomic prices?
§ Mr. LloydThis does not involve a subsidy to one set of firms any more than it could be held on the other hand, to involve a penalty to other firms. It is the pricing policy of the Coal Board and is carried out irrespective of individual firms.
§ Mr. GaitskellIs it not a fact that coking coal is at present being sold at a loss, and that there is a very serious shortage of it? Will not the Minister consider charging a price for coking coal which covers its cost of production?
§ Mr. LloydI will consider that point, since the right hon. Gentleman has mentioned it, but he may be aware that the price of coking coal has advanced more, proportionately, than other coals in some of the recent increases. I do not know whether he would consider it wise to push up the price of coking coal further, and so increase the price of gas and coke.
§ Mr. GaitskellI have in mind the cost of producing coking coal in Durham, which is rather high. I suggest that to secure greatest economy, in steel producing firms in particular, it would be advisable to charge the full price.
Miss WardWill the Minister bear in mind that the Coal Board charge more to the lower income groups because they have to buy in bags? Cannot he arrange for them to have their coal at the same cheap price which applies to people who place bigger orders?
§ Mr. LloydUnfortunately, larger orders are more economic from the point of view of distribution than smaller ones, which have to be supplied in smaller packets, as it were.
§ Mr. LloydI will give my hon. Friend the undertaking that I shall discuss the matter with the Chairman of the Coal Board.
§ Mr. Noel-BakerIs it not a fact that both the small and the large user get their coal much cheaper than they would do if the industry had not been nationalised?
§ 36. Mr. Manuelasked the Minister of Fuel and Power the pithead prices of the various grades of coal, indicating which grades are used for domestic or industrial purposes.
§ Mr. Geoffrey LloydThe National Coal Board is responsible for the pithead prices of individual grades of coal as a matter of day-to-day administration and I would suggest that the hon. Member might like to make direct inquiries of the Board.
§ Mr. ManuelDoes not the Minister think that this is an extraordinary position, in view of the fact that pithead prices are factual? Why cannot he give them when an hon. Member asks for them? Why does he not do something to relate the price charged at the pithead to the retail price?
§ Mr. LloydI am only trying sincerely and fairly to operate a system which I inherited. I might point out to the hon. Gentleman something of which he may not be aware—that there are between 7,000 and 8,000 different commercial descriptions of coal.
§ Mr. ManuelYes, of course.
§ Mr. K. ThompsonMr. Speaker, may I draw your attention to Question No. 26, which related to precisely the same point, which was apparently accepted by the Table—as was Question No. 36—and which was answered by the Minister? I simply raise the point because many of us are in grave doubt about what we can ask, what will be accepted and to what we can expect an answer.
§ Mr. SpeakerThis Question was not quite the same as Question No. 26. This Question is admissible, and the hon. Member for Central Ayrshire (Mr. Manuel) has received an answer to it.
§ 37. Mr. Manuelasked the Minister of Fuel and Power the average retail prices charged for the various grades of domestic and industrial coal.
§ Mr. Geoffrey LloydI regret that this information is not available but I will, with the hon. Member's permission, circulate in the OFFICIAL REPORT a sample maximum retail price for house coal in a few selected towns and if he requires further information he will, no doubt, communicate with me. Similar information for industrial coal is not available.
§ Mr. ManuelI thank the Minister for that information, but will he make certain that there is equity in the prices charged for the various grades of coal? Is he sure that the economic return from the industrial coal being used is what it ought to be, when compared with the return from the coal being used by the domestic consumer?
§ Captain OrrDoes the list of these towns include Belfast?
§ Following are the figures:
§ The maximum retail prices of group 4 coals, which are of average quality, are at present as follow:
| Per ton | ||
| Troon | s | d. |
| Troon | 91 | 10 |
| Edinburgh | 92 | 9 |
| Sheffield | 89 | 6 |
| Manchester | 94 | 3 |
| Birmingham | 95 | 3 |
| Bristol | 109 | 6 |
| Cambridge | 112 | 5 |
| London | 118 | 11 |
§ NOTE.—These prices take account of the current reductions under the summer/winter prices scheme of 2s. 6d. per ton in Bristol, London and Cambridge, and of 5s. per ton in the other places.