24. Air Commodore Harveyasked the Under-Secretary of State for Air what plans he has for alternative employment for the flying instructors of the Reserve Flying Schools, which are to close down within the next few months.
§ 26. Mr. Perkinsasked the Under-Secretary of State for Air what alternative employment will be offered to the pilots whose employment will be affected by the decision to close 16 flying training establishments; and what compensation will be paid to the pilots who are being displaced without being offered alternative employment.
Mr. WardParticulars of openings for re-entry into the Royal Air Force on a wide variety of engagements have been supplied to flying instructors and other staff employed by the civil companies affected. About 150 inquiries have so far been received, and the interviewing of candidates will start on Monday.
The contracts with the civil firms in no case exceeded three years and contained a break clause which provided that they could be terminated at three months' notice; in these circumstances the Air Council cannot admit any claim to compensation by employees of the firms.
Air Commodore HarveyIs my hon. Friend aware that many of these flying instructors are aged between 40 and 50 and have given something like 20 years' service to the country as instructors or temporary civil servants? Does not he believe that his Ministry is getting out of this matter in a very shabby manner? Will he look at the question again?
Mr. WardNo, Sir. I do not think that there is anything shabby about this at all. We have done everything possible to help those who want to come back into the Air Force. Many of those who do not will find employment as pilots with the civil airlines.
§ Mr. PerkinsCan the Under-Secretary tell the House whether or not he received an application from the British Airline Pilots' Association, the trade union concerned, for an interview over a month ago, and whether that interview has yet taken place?
Mr. WardThe letter I received from B.A.L.P.A. was fully answered, and all the arguments they put forward in it were dealt with.
§ Mr. BeswickThe Under-Secretary says that none of these contracts was for more than three years, but is not it the fact that in the case of Kirton Lindsay, for example, the school had only been opened in 1952 and that it was closed almost casually just before Christmas? If this had been done by a Labour Government, hon. Members opposite and the Press would have denounced it as a national scandal. Does the hon. Gentleman think that this is the right way of doing business for the Royal Air Force?
Mr. WardIf the hon. Gentleman wants to make a party point, let me remind him that this expansion was begun by the Labour Government. This is only one decision which we have had to take in the re-examination of our requirements.
§ Mr. A. HendersonI am sure that the Under-Secretary is not reproaching the late Government for expanding the air training organisation but, as he raised the matter, would not he agree that none of these schools has been open for anything like three years and that most were opened last year; and that if those who are associated with this problem had gone to the parties concerned in 1951 and said, "We will be closing you down in 1952" it is doubtful whether one of them would have agreed to open a school?
Mr. WardAt the time these schools were opened, it was the policy to have a certain number of National Service airmen trained under civil contract, but that policy was changed when the National Service intake was reduced. The terms of the contracts are well-known.
§ Mr. PerkinsIn view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, and the fact that no interview with the trade union concerned has yet taken place, I beg to give notice that I will raise the matter at the earliest opportunity on the Motion for the Adjournment.
25. Air Commodore Harveyasked the Under-Secretary of State for Air to give further details regarding the reduction of Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve Flying Training Schools; and if he will outline the future policy of reserve training.
Mr. WardI regret that I cannot at present add anything to previous statements; but I hope to be able to deal with the matter fully in introducing the Air Estimates.
Air Commodore HarveyIn the meantime, the flying instructors and ground staffs employed by other flying training schools not under notice are very concerned about their future. If there is any intention of closing them down at an early date, could not a statement be made? Further, what is to happen to the surplus aircraft thrown out by the schools which have already received notice to close?
Mr. WardThere are very many factors which entered into this decision and the change of policy which I announced, and I could not possibly do justice to them at Question time. I would ask my hon. and gallant Friend to wait for the debate on the Estimates, when we can discuss the matter.
§ Mr. de FreitasIs the Under-Secretary aware that many of the older instructors, including dozens in Lincolnshire, were led to believe that they had several years of steady employment in front of them, and that they incurred heavy family obligations by way of housing and so on? What is he going to do about it?
§ Mr. de FreitasWe can discuss that matter also in the debate on the Estimates, but is the hon. Gentleman not aware that one Lincolnshire school opened only last year and the period of three years which he mentioned was quoted.
§ 27. Mr. Beswickasked the Under-Secretary of State for Air whether he will reconsider the decision to close certain civilian training schools and utilise them for training Regular and National Service pilots so enabling economies to be effected in uniformed manpower in Flying Training Command.
Mr. WardNo, Sir. The Royal Air Force flying training organisation has been developed for the express purpose of training Regular pilots and will continue to be so used. Owing to the reduction in National Service aircrew intakes, we are now able to absorb National Service 194 pilots also into Flying Training Command, and separate civilian schools are no longer justified.
§ Mr. BeswickIs it not a fact that the cost of training a pilot is less in a civilian school, and if they were used for the purpose suggested, would it not release uniformed men for operational commands?
Mr. WardNo, Sir; the hon. Gentleman is forgetting that I announced recently that the future training sequence is going to be Provosts and Vampires, and that could not take place under civilian operated schools. Moreover, whereas basic civilian flying training is just as good as in the Service, there is a tremendous advantage in a pupil absorbing the Service atmosphere during his training.
§ 28. Mr. Beswickasked the Under-Secretary of State for Air how many civilian flying instructors and licensed engineers will lose their employment as a result of the decision to close civilian flying schools and voluntary reserve schools.
Mr. WardIt is impossible to say how many of the civilian flying instructors, numbering approximately 300, and of the licensed engineers employed by the civil contractors will lose their employment. Some will undoubtedly be transferred to other employment under the same firm.
§ Mr. BeswickIs it not clearly established that quite a number of people will be out of employment, and is it not also the case that the country has invested in these men a large amount of capital, because it is a very expensive business to train them, and should not some method be found of utilising the skill at present vested in these people?
Mr. WardWe have already received 150 applications and have set up a special selection board. We are doing the best we can.
§ Mr. BeswickCan the Under-Secretary say what terms are being offered to these men? Is it not a fact that the Ministry are offering 18 months or three years, and is that considered to be satisfactory alternative employment?
Mr. WardThere is a very large variety of engagement open to them if they are suitable—four, five, six, seven or even eight years of Regular service.