HC Deb 11 February 1953 vol 511 cc402-7
26. Mr. H. Hynd

asked the Minister of Food whether he is aware of numerous increases in cost of foodstuffs since December, 1951, details of which are given in a poster, a copy of which has been sent him; and haw far the items mentioned have been taken into consideration in compiling the cost-of-living index figure.

Major Lloyd George

I cannot accept many of the figures quoted in the poster. I am satisfied that the food section of the Interim Index of Retail Prices provides an accurate measure of the general level of food prices

Mr. Hynd

Would the Minister, in his own interests, indicate to this side of the House which are the figures on this poster which he does not accept, because we are anxious to use it as anti-Government propaganda?

Major Lloyd George

I am afraid the hon. Gentleman had better be very careful, because what has happened is that they have taken the prices of certain commodities at their highest point. As an example, if the hon. Gentleman wants one, he will find that the figure in the poster for baked beans shows that the price is up by 50 per cent. In fact, the prices are down in some cases by 5 per cent. and the maximum increase is 14 per cent.

Mr. Lewis

Is the Minister aware that the Henry Smith organisation, which issued this circular, has had the support of the Catering Association and of hoteliers? Is he further aware that these figures have been taken from reputable trade journals of the various catering trade employers? Is it not a fact that these figures are true and that they show the actual increase in the cost of living in these articles?

Major Lloyd George

No. I do not accept that at all. Perhaps I may take a few examples. Whereas a figure of a 50 per cent. increase is shown for baked beans, in general the figure for baked beans is actually down by 5 per cent. and there is a maximum increase of 14 per cent. That presents a totally different picture.

Mr. Lewis

indicated dissent.

Major Lloyd George

It is no good the hon. Gentleman shaking his head. We have as much information at our disposal as he has at his disposal. What has happened here is that they have taken the highest price—which we can always obtain for any commodity—as the normal price, when it is not.

Mr. Lewis

asked the Minister of Food if he is aware that, for the year ended December, 1952, butter beans have increased in price by 50 per cent., haricot beans by 45 per cent., blancmange powders by 33 per cent., cake and pudding mixtures by 8 per cent., coffee by 20 per cent., plain flour by 56 per cent., self-raising flour by 53 per cent., canned meats by 30.57 per cent. and tea by 33 per cent.; and whether he will therefore introduce price control on these commodities, and thus enable these articles to be purchased by those in the lower income groups.

Major Lloyd George

I cannot accept the figures quoted by the hon. Member. The only proper measure of the general increase in food prices is the food section of the Interim Index of Retail Prices, which rose by 9 per cent. between January and December, 1952. I do not propose to reintroduce price control on those foods from which it has been lifted.

Mr. Lewis

Is the Minister aware that these figures have been taken from the publication to which my hon. Friend has referred? Is he further aware of the fact that if in fact the catering employers have misled the public by issuing the poster, it is about time hotels cut their prices and brought them down instead of up, and that that is the real reason for these percentages?

Major Lloyd George

The hon. Member will appreciate that that is another question. All I am prepared to say on the figures I have taken from that poster is that the exaggeration varies from two-thirds to one-half.

28. Mr. Lewis

asked the Minister of Food if he is aware that, during the year ended December, 1952, bacon, whole sides, increased in price by 63 per cent., streaky bacon by 63 per cent., butter by 20 per cent., rationed cheese by 86 per cent., imported cheese by 26 per cent., bread by 25 per cent., cooking fat by 12½ per cent., gammons and hams by 92 per cent., lard by 12½ per cent., fresh meat by 21 per cent., fresh milk by 19 per cent., pork sausages by 21 per cent., beef sausages by 21½ per cent. and sugar by 11 per cent.; what were the reasons for these increases; and what action his Department is taking to bring down the price of these commodities.

Major Lloyd George

Information is not available about imported cheeses, but the price increases for the other foods quoted by the hon. Member are approximately correct for the year ending 30th November. As regards the second part of the Question, I would refer the hon. Member to the Budget statement by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer. As to the third part of the Question, I would draw the hon. Member's attention to the fact that the cost of living and the overall cost of food has remained practically stable since June. 1952—a welcome change from the increases since 1948 during the life of the Last Administration.

Mr. Lewis

Having at last got from the Minister an assurance that the figures quoted are correct, may I ask if he can explain why, as he accepts those figures, there is a variation of between 11 per cent. and some 86 per cent. on the major basic foodstuffs that the people of this country have to use? How can he come forward with a ridiculous figure of 6 per cent. when he accepts figures between 11 per cent. and 86 per cent.? Will he explain that?

Major Lloyd George

The hon. Member should know by now that the only possible method of judging whether the cost of living has changed is the Retail Index of Prices system inaugurated by hon. Members opposite. When it suits them to use it they do so, and when it does not suit them they ignore it. The fact is that the position has remained steady since June.

Sir W. Smithers

Is not the real answer —[HON. MEMBERS: "Tory Government."] —to Questions Nos. 27 and 28 to stop bulk purchase abroad, to stop State trading at home and to close the Ministry of Food?

Mr. Beswick

On a point of order. In controverting certain statements which have been made, the Minister quoted from this document and said that baked beans were stated to have risen by 50 per cent. In point of fact, in this document the rise is not one of 50 per cent., but one of 10 per cent. Is it in order for the right hon. and gallant Member to give very misleading quotations?

Mr. Speaker

There is no point of order in that the hon. Member must know that perfectly well. It is purely a question of fact.

Major Lloyd George

On that point, if I may do so, I would draw the attention of the hon. Member to the item, "Beans, baked, 50 per cent." That is stated there, and I cannot accept the figures quoted by the hon. Member.

Mr. Lewis

On a point of order. I gave way to the Minister because I thought he wanted to reply, but I think he was proceeding to answer the next Question. I beg to give notice that in view of the complete mix-up on the part of the Minister in replying to the last two Questions, I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment.

Mr. Speaker

I have frequently drawn the attention of hon. Members to the undesirable practice of introducing into a notice of Motion imputations of any

The following table shows the controlled prices of the commodities mentioned at 31st December 1951, and 31st January, 1953:
Commodity Unit Retail Price
31st December, 1951 31st January, 1953
National Bread … 3½ lb. 1s. 0d. 1s. 3d.
Flour (Self Raising) … 3 lb. 1s. 2½d. 1s. 6¼d.
Liquid Milk (full price) … pint 6d. 6½d.
Eggs … each 3d. to 5d. 3d. to 5d.
Potatoes (in England and Wales) … 7 lb. 1s. 0½d. to 1s. 2½d. 1s. 1½d. to 1s. 4d.
Butter … lb. 2s. 6d. 3s. 0d.
Margarine … lb. 1s. 2d. 1s. 4d.
Sugar … lb. 6d. 7d.
Cheese … lb. 2s. 0d. 2s. 2d.
Bacon (average excluding gammon) … lb. 3s. 5d. 3s. 10d.
Lard and Cooking Fat … lb. 1s. 4d. 1s. 6d.
Carcase Meat (average) … lb. 1s. 8d. 2s. 0d.
Tea (main types) … lb. 3s. 4d.—4s. 6d. 3s. 4d.—5s. (a)
Coffee (main types) … lb. 4s. 2d.—5s. 11d. 5s. 0d.—7s. (a)
(a) Prices not controlled.
character, or words of argument or debate. I think hon. Members will be well advised to stick to the well known formula—" Owing to the unsatisfactory nature of the reply."

Mr. Lewis

In view of your Ruling, Mr. Speaker, may I withdraw what I said and give notice that, in view of the unsatisfactory difference between the figures of the Minister and mine, I shall raise the matter again?

31. Mr. Peter Freeman

asked the Minister of Food what were the standard prices in 1951 and at the latest known date of bread, milk, eggs, potatoes, flour, butter, margarine, sugar, cheese, bacon, cooking fat, beef, mutton, coffee and tea; and what is the total increase, per week, in the cost of these articles.

Major Lloyd George

As the reply to the first part of the Question involves a large number of figures, I will, with permission, circulate a statement in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

The total increase in cost depends on the quantities in which all these items enter into the expenditure of the average household. The food section of the Interim Index of Retail Prices is the only reliable guide, and it rose in this period by 9.3 per cent.

Mr. Freeman

Can the Minister say the total increase per week of these foods for the average family?

Major Lloyd George

It depends on the different households, and the only reliable test is the over-all index.

Followine is the information: