HC Deb 28 October 1952 vol 505 cc1732-4
41. Mr. Boardman

asked the Minister of Labour what evidence there is of effective response to appeals made for the employment of older people, and for the retention in industry of those who have reached the normal retiring age.

Mr. Watkinson

As might be expected in a matter of this kind, involving changes in long-established attitudes and practices, the response has been uneven, both from employers and workers, but there is much interest and discussion. This is what is needed at this stage to promote effective action.

Mr. Boardman

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that while he will undoubtedly have the very willing co-operation of many employers, there are also many other employers who will do precisely nothing in this matter unless under statutory obligation to do so? Will the hon. Gentleman and the Minister take into consideration?

Mr. Watkinson

The hon. Member will know that I preside over the national advisory committee on this subject, and I should pay a tribute to the great help I am receiving from both sides of industry in this work. Only this week the Post Office announced the raising of the upper age limit of recruitment for minor engineering manipulative grades, so they are certainly playing their part.

Mr. Callaghan

Why is the hon. Gentleman's Department retiring fit men of the age of 61 years?

Mr. Watkinson

The answer to that was given by the Minister the other day. It is that 60 is the retiring age in the Ministry of Labour and we cannot retain people beyond that age if it affects promotion lower down the scale in the Ministry. That is the only reason for this action.

Mr. Callaghan

What use does the hon. Member think it is making appeals to private industry if he himself does not set a good example?

Mr. Watkinson

The hon. Member has quite misunderstood the kind of appeal which we are making, which is for the employment of the older age levels on the merits of a particular case, not as a right.

Mr. Jay

Surely the Government have told the House that there is no longer a normal retiring age in the Civil Service. Why, therefore, does he say that 60 is the retiring age in his Department?

Mr. Watkinson

We have 600 people in the Ministry over the age of 60 and we are very glad that they are continuing in employment. I think that is very significant.

Mr. T. Brown

Is there any co-operation and collaboration with the nationalised industries, because my experience teaches me that since 1950 an entirely different attitude has been adopted by the high level of nationalised industry, who have been dismissing men who want and are fit to continue at the age of 65? Is there any co-operation between the two Departments?

Mr. Watkinson

Yes. The nationalised industries are represented on the advisory committee over which I preside, and they are playing their part. We all recognise that this is a very difficult and urgent human problem, and I am very glad that hon. and right hon. Gentlemen opposite have stressed its urgency. We will do all we can on this committee, urged on, I hope, by the House, to solve this problem.

Mr. Nicholson

Has my hon. Friend made any approach to other Departments as well as the Post Office, notably the Admiralty?