HC Deb 27 October 1952 vol 505 cc1685-8

Amendment made: In page 3, line 27, after "numbers," insert "and salaries."—[Mr. Nugent.]

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill."

Mr. John Hay (Henley)

I wish to raise two very small points in connection with this Clause. As the Committee will have seen it is a Clause giving power to inspectors who may be appointed to go on to private property and enter dwelling houses, and I think that the Committee should examine this with a little care before passing from it.

Subsection (2) gives the inspector the power to enter on property at all reasonable hours for the purposes of the Bill or the Regulations which may be made thereunder. I want my hon. Friend to assure us that when such powers come to be exercised by these inspectors, they will be exercised in the daytime. Although it does not say so, I suppose it would be perfectly possible for an inspector to go along at a time which was most inconvenient to the farmer, and I suggest that we ought to be told that in fact these inspection visits will be made only in the daytime.

9.15 p.m.

The second point is somewhat more important and concerns the proviso to Clause 3 (2). The Committee will see that the purpose of the proviso is to make it clear that where a dwelling-house is the property to be entered by an inspector, 24 hours' notice of the intended entry must be given. There is an exception and it is those houses where there are, or are reasonably believed by the inspector to be, washing facilities provided for persons who do not live there.

I am not quite sure why it should be necessary in the general context of the Bill for power to be given to an inspector to visit and enter a dwelling-house. The purpose of the Bill is to protect those who are making use of these poisonous substances in agriculture, and obviously the equipment and the substances to be used will be stored in the farm buildings. I can see no reason why it should be necessary to grant power to enter a dwelling-house.

The only possible reason—and this is straining the language a little—is that the inspector might want to enter for the purpose referred to in Clause 1 (3, g)—to deal with the question of the use of facilities for preventive and first-aid treatment. A first-aid box is the only sort of thing, apart from washing facilities, which is likely to be in a dwelling-house. Would my hon. Friend explain why it is necessary to include in the Bill power for inspectors to go into dwelling-houses? I can understand that it is necessary for them to go into farm buildings, and I think we all agree that it is important that such powers should exist, but I should be glad to have some explanation of why they should have power to go into dwelling-houses.

Mr. Nugent

I think I can assure my hon. Friend that inspectors will normally make their inspections in the daytime. I suppose it is possible that they might call at night if they wished to see the farmer and he had been out when they called earlier, but they will normally be concerned with the actual operations and will wish to make their visits during the process itself. These inspectors are men at present engaged in the business of farm inspections, for they will be recruited from the farm wage inspectorate and they are at present visiting farms. They will understand the general set-up in the farm world, so that there is sufficient reason for farmers and all concerned to have confidence in them.

The answer to my hon. Friend's second question is contained in one of his own suggestions—that one of the most important protections is provided by adequate washing facilities not only washing the hands and face of the operators, but also washing the various protective garments which they will wear. In many cases there will not be wonderful washing facilities outside the farm house, so that the operators will have to go into the farm house in order to wash. When an inspector calls on such a farm and wants to see what washing facilities are provided—whether there is running water and clean towels, which is the sort of thing to be included in the Regulations we shall make—it will be necessary for him to go into the farm house in order to ensure that the facilities provided are up to the standard thought necessary. That is why we are taking the powers in the Bill.

Mr. Hay

With respect, I think my hon. Friend has misunderstood the point I was making. The proviso makes clear that 24 hours' notice is required only in the case of dwelling-houses other than those in which there are, or are reasonably believed by the inspector to be, washing facilities … I should have thought that if in fact they wanted to go to inspect a dwelling-house to see the washing facilities under the Bill or the Regulations, there would not be the necessity for the requirement of 24 hours' notice. What I was concerned with was the other type, not those excepted by the word s … other than one in which there are, or are reasonably believed by the inspector to be, washing facilities. …

Mr. Nugent

Now I have the usual source of inspiration of Parliamentary Secretaries placed in this position. The answer to my hon. Friend's query is specifically, for the records of operations—and in this connection records are particularly important to show how many hours of work each individual man has spent with these poisonous sprays. As he has rightly said, the effect is cumulative. Therefore, it is particularly important to have records accurately kept, and records kept actually in the house, and it is particularly for that purpose, as well as for first-aid equipment, which my hon. Friend also mentioned, and possibly the storage of protective clothing, which may also be kept in the farm house, that this provision has been put in.

Clause, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 4 to 7 and 9 to 12 ordered to stand part of the Bill.