Hardship Tribunals (Hansard, 18 November 1952)

19. Miss Ward
asked the Minister of Labour whether, in view of divergent de- 1556 cisions by hardship committees on cases for postponement of National Service involving greater sacrifices on the part of some men than others, he will examine the position with a view to obtaining real equality and not paper equality.

§ Sir W. Monckton
Under present arrangements, which have been in operation since 1939, every determination of a hardship committee is examined and an appeal is made to the umpire in any case where a decision appears not to be in accordance with the principles which he has laid down. I do not think more could be done to ensure substantial uniformity of treatment.

Miss Ward
In view of the fact that yesterday I was told that the information upon which my right hon. and learned Friend might have relied to give me an answer to my Question was not available, may I ask whether he examines the decisions of the various hardship committees, or has he just accepted the generally expressed view which, if I may say so, does not answer my Question at all?

§ Sir W. Monckton
The first thing I would say about this is that, in view of the number that come forward, I would not pretend to the House that I examine each one myself. They are examined in the Department by people upon whose competence I have reliance, but a good many come through to me, and then I study them myself.

20. Miss Ward
asked the Minister of Labour when a call-up for National Service involves the sale of a business and a withdrawal of financial support to dependants, what guidance is given to hardship committees; and what limit is placed on their powers to renew postponement.

§ Sir W. Monckton
Hardship committees are provided with the relevant Regulations made under the National Service Act, 1948, and with the interpretation placed on these by the umpire in leading cases. There is no limit on their power to renew postponement for six months at a time, subject to the umpire's decision if the case goes to appeal.

Miss Ward
Is my right hon. and learned Friend aware that it was conveyed 1557 to me that there was a limit and that people could not be permanently postponed from serving; and if that information was incorrect, may I ask him to return to the cases I submitted to him in which a wrong interpretation of his powers has been given to me?

§ Sir W. Monckton
I am sorry to find my hon. Friend thinks that a wrong interpretation has been placed. What I said in my answer was that there is no limit on their power to renew postponement for six months at a time. That is, of course, postponement. It will still leave the man with a liability to serve before he gets out of his age.

Miss Ward
Is my right hon. and learned Friend aware that I quite realise the answer he gave to my Question, but I adhere to my supplementary question?

21. Miss Ward
asked the Minister of Labour in how many cases of postponement for National Service he has appealed to the umpire for an increase in the period granted by hardship committees; how many for a reduction in the period granted; and with what result.

§ Sir W. Monckton
If a hardship committee has granted some period of postponement the man himself has the right to apply for renewal and there is no need for me to appeal for an extension. In the 12 months ending 30th September, 1952, I appealed in 22 cases against refusal of postponement and all of these were allowed. In the same period, I appealed in 158 cases against the grant of postponement and in eight cases for a reduction in the period granted: 135 of the former and all of the latter were allowed.

Miss Ward
Then may I ask my right hon. and learned Friend if it is not a fact that the hardship committees have not really got the power which my right hon. and learned Friend indicated, and I still want to ask him if he can tell me how he secures that all parts of the country get the same treatment, because I am convinced that they do not?

§ Sir W. Monckton
I think that in accordance with those who preceded me, I do my best to secure conformity, but 30 years' experience in the law has shown me it is impossible to obtain it in all cases because of human frailty.

§ Mr. Shinwell
Do not these Questions addressed to the right hon. and learned Gentleman by the hon. Member opposite, and the existence of many other anomalies which must be known to the right hon. and learned Gentleman, justify a review of the National Service Acts, and would not the Government consider that proposal?

§ Sir W. Monckton
I am always ready to look into any anomalies brought to my attention, but I do not think the conclusion which the right hon. Gentleman has drawn is justified.

§ Mr. Hector Hughes
Will the Minister say what principle he goes on in making these appeals and what has been the effect on unemployment in Scotland?

§ Sir W. Monckton
To the second part of the question I shall not venture to make a confident reply. As to the first, the principle I try to adopt is this: I see what the umpire, who is the highest authority in this matter, has laid down, and I try to see that so far as possible his principles are consistently applied in the cases which come before me. If I see they are not, I suggest an appeal.