HC Deb 18 November 1952 vol 507 cc1769-83

Considered in Committee of the whole House under Standing Order No. 84 (Money Committees).—[Queen's Recommendation signified.]

[Mr. HOPKIN MORRIS in the Chair]

Motion made, and Question proposed: That, for the purposes of any Act of the present Session to continue certain expiring laws, it is expedient to authorise the payment out of moneys provided by Parliament of such expenses as may be occasioned by the continuance of the Cotton Manufacturing Industry (Temporary Provisions) Act, 1934, the Road Traffic Act, 1934, and the Population (Statistics) Act, 1938, until the thirty-first day of December, nineteen hundred and fifty-three, and of the Rent of Furnished Houses Control (Scotland) Act, 1943, the Licensing Planning (Temporary Provisions) Act, 1945, and the Furnished Houses (Rent Control) Act, 1946, until the thirty-first day of March, nineteen hundred and fifty-four, being expenses which under any Act are to be defrayed out of such moneys.—[Mr. Boyd-Carpenter.]

12.44 a.m.

Mr. Eric Fletcher (Islington, East)

Now that we are in Committee I have no doubt we shall be able to have a more leisurely and more detailed study of the Money Resolution than, of course, we could have had on Second Reading. The ambit of the debate then was limited by the previous practice of the House. Obviously there is no such limitation on the duty of this Committee to consider the financial implications of the Bill which has had a Second Reading by such a very narrow majority. The Financial Memorandum which accompanies this Bill, and which is the only justification we have had in this Committee for the Money Resolution we are asked to pass, seems most inadequate.

I am sure there are several questions that arise in the minds of every hon. Member who has considered the Financial Memorandum. Perhaps I could refer to one or two of the purposes for which we are being asked to vote money tonight. In the first place, we are asked to pro- vide such expenses as may be incurred by the continuance of the Cotton Manufacturing Industry (Temporary Provisions) Act, 1934. May we know roughly what sum we are being asked to vote? I have no idea. There is nothing about it in the Financial Memorandum. We are also being asked to vote money in connection with the continuance of the Population (Statistics) Act, 1938. There we are given some information. We are told that this will account for a sum of £4,000 a year in respect of the salaries of the staff engaged in providing national statistics on fertility. I have no doubt—

The Deputy-Chairman (Mr. Hopkin Morris)

The hon. Member is entitled to ask for the sum but he cannot go into the details of these Bills. This is a Money Resolution only.

Mr. Fletcher

The point I was coming to was that there are various Measures set out in the Schedule for which money has to be provided. We are told that we have to provide £4,000 for the continuation of the Population (Statistics) Act so that we can have further details of fertility. Then we are told that in connection with statistics under the Road Traffic Act the expenditure involved cannot be stated but that it will be small. "Small" is a relative term. We have heard "small" used in various contexts. I will not quote any of them because a number of illustrations will leap to the mind.

Mr. R. R. Stokes (Ipswich)

Three hundred million pounds.

Mr. Fletcher

If we had the presence of the Prime Minister, who is a Member of this Committee, we might have a different idea as to what he meant by small than when we are dealing with the Financial Secretary to the Treasury. I am anxious to know what is the yardstick. In one paragraph of the Financial Memorandum we are told precisely that the statistics of fertility will cost £4,000 a year, but we are also told that we cannot be given precisely the estimate in respect of the Road Traffic Act but that it will be small. Is it more than £4,000 or less. Is £4,000 the sort of sum below which the Committee is not given any details? I cannot help feeling that this is a very unsatisfactory state of affairs.

Then we come to the Rent of Furnished Houses Control (Scotland) Act, which is an important Act. The Committee will have to decide in due course whether they are going to renew it for another year. We are told that the estimated expense is £1,300. I should have thought that small compared with £300 million heard in connection with a millstone, and the Town and Country Planning Bill, introduced today to abolish a £300 million global sum payment.

But that is not the end of it because another item which will require the attention of the Committee is the Licensing Planning (Temporary Provisions) Act. My hon. Friend the Member for Ealing, North (Mr. J. Hudson) will have a great deal to say about that. How can the Committee do itself justice; how can the hon. Member for Ealing, North address himself to the desirability of continuing that Bill for another year unless we know how much expenditure is involved? All we are told is that it is small. I cannot help thinking that when we are told it is small, the Government mean it will be more than the sums of £1,300 and £4,000 mentioned in respect of the two Measures I have previously mentioned. The Committee ought not to proceed with the matter unless the Financial Secretary to the Treasury is prepared to give us much more information about the cost of renewing this Bill for another year.

12.51 a.m.

Mr. Barnett Janner (Leicester, North-West)

I have listened with great care to my hon. Friend the Member for Islington, East (Mr. E. Fletcher), and I agree that this is by no means a trivial matter. I should like to know the answer to one matter to which he has not referred. We are told in the Financial Memorandum that the continuance of the Furnished Houses (Rent Control) Act, 1946, will involve expenditure in respect of the remuneration and salaries and allowances payable to the members of staff of tribunals set up under the Act. This is extremely important: On the assumption that the 68 tribunals will continue to operate as at present, it is estimated that the cost will amount to £120,000.… This is absolute nonsense, because we have been told time after time that the tribunals are not intended to continue as at present—

The Deputy-Chairman

The hon. Member cannot discuss the tribunals or whether they are to continue or not. The one question that can be discussed is the financial arrangements.

Mr. Janner

With great respect, we are told that the reason why £120,000 is going to be expended—

The Deputy-Chairman

The hon. Member can raise that issue during the Committee stage, but at this stage the only question is the amount of money. He cannot discuss whether the tribunals themselves should be continued.

Mr. Janner

I am not discussing that at all. On the contrary, it has already been decided, without any discussion, that they shall not be continued. That is the gravamen of my case. We are being asked to provide £120,000. I submit that I am entitled to ask how we can be asked to provide that sum when it is not intended to provide the tribunals on which the money is to be spent. Surely I am entitled to ask that in a general sense?

The Deputy-Chairman

The hon Member can raise that on the Committee stage. That is the proper place to raise it, not here.

Mr. Janner

We have been told that we cannot discuss anything on the Bill itself. Are we now being told that when we are asked to pass a Money Resolution, we are to pass or not pass it without knowledge of what that money is to be used for? I am talking in a general sense. It is public money. We are being told a series of untruths, because the very basis on which this application is being made to us is unfounded. Surely I am entitled—

The Deputy-Chairman

I must point out it is not in order to discuss that on this Resolution. The place to discuss what is in the Bill is on the Committee stage. The hon. Member can then make the speech he is making.

Mr. Janner

Of course, Mr. Hopkin Morris, I bow to your Ruling in the matter. Then, I put it in general terms: Is the Financial Secretary prepared to explain why he is asking for this Money Resolution at all? What is it that he wants? Is there any reason why, in view of what the Government have been saying and doing, in view of their constant attempts to wreck the whole of the system which has been built up of protection—

The Deputy-Chairman

Again, I must ask the hon. Member to keep to the terms of the Resolution.

Mr. Janner

Without considering what the Government are doing, have done or propose to do, will the Financial Secretary explain why on earth he wants this money, because we are not prepared to grant it unless he gives a satisfactory explanation?

12.56 a.m.

Mr. James Hudson (Ealing, North)

This is one of the occasions on which Parliament exercises its inalienable right to criticise expenditure and, indeed, to withdraw Supply. The Resolution talks about it being expedient to authorise the payment out of moneys provided by Parliament … I consider it is a disgrace that as Members of Parliament we should be considering the payment of money for purposes like those mentioned in the Bill. The Money Resolution says: it is expedient to authorise the payment out of moneys provided by Parliament of such expenses as may be occasioned by the continuance … At that point, Mr. Hopkin Morris, I understand that your Ruling comes down. Up to that point, I say that a Government who have gone to the country with all sorts of promises about care in the expenditure of public money, a Government that come away from their party conference with further resounding promises about economy in public expenditure—

The Deputy-Chairman

I am afraid I am coming down a little further on the hon. Member. This is a very narrow Resolution, and the matters that the hon. Member is now raising can very properly be discussed on the Committee stage of the Bill. That, as I point out once more, is the proper place to raise these issues.

Mr. Hudson

I am obliged for your guidance, Mr. Hopkin Morris, but all the same I feel it is quite wrong for me as an individual Member of Parliament to remain quiet while a proposal of this sort is going through the House. I cannot speak, of course—

The Deputy-Chairman

I do not wish that the hon. Member should remain quiet upon it. He will have his opportunity when the Committee stage is reached, when he can put down Amendments to deal with those issues; but the Resolution is a very narrow one.

Mr. Glenvil Hall (Colne Valley)

Will not that be too late? Once we pass this Resolution, it is passed and we cannot go back on the work that we have done. Therefore, surely now is the time to discuss this Money Resolution and to decide whether or not we desire to vote this money.

The Deputy-Chairman

Yes, this is the time to discuss the Money Resolution, but not the merits of the Bill.

Mr. Janner

Further to that point of order. May I ask this question? Supposing at a later stage we want to introduce a further Act into the Schedule, we should not then be able to do that if this Money Resolution had not been discussed fully, because we would then be told that no Money Resolution had been passed which would cover that point. Therefore, how on earth, if we do not deal with the Money Resolution now, can we in Committee stage deal with any Act apart from removing any Act?

The Deputy-Chairman

It is out of order to try to remove the sums in the Resolution even now. The only things that can be discussed is whether it should be withdrawn or what should be substituted for it.

Mr. Hudson

I shall be guided by what you have told me, Mr. Hopkin Morris, in the matter of putting down Amendments to deal with the subjects in which I am interested, but I object to the whole of the Bill; I object to the expenditure of money on the Bill; I object, in particular, to the inability of the Government to tell us with any precision in what sort of expenditure the House is to be involved. My hon. Friend the Member for Islington, East (Mr. E. Fletcher) referred to the second paragraph of the Financial Memorandum which states that the expenditure involved in the Road Traffic Act, which is to be continued: cannot be estimated but will be small. That statement runs like a refrain through the Memorandum, because exactly the same words are repeated about another expenditure, at the bottom of the page, where it is again stated that the amount: cannot be estimated but will be small. Is it creditable—[HON. MEMBERS: "Credible."]—is it either creditable or credible that a Government who have promised, as the present Government have, to be careful about the expenditure of public money, should come before us with indefiniteness of this kind? I suggest to the Financial Secretary that this refrain should be sung by him as his most appropriate exercise on this occasion. At any rate, we should get it into our minds, as the country will get it into their minds, that in matters of this sort, where legislation is being continued, the Government know nothing at all about the precise expenditure in which the country will be involved, despite the general promises they have made, some of which I have read.

I agree that we should do what I have been advised by the Chair to do—put down a series of Amendments which may considerably lengthen the proceedings on the Bill. That is unfortunate, but one naturally bows to the guidance from the Chair. There are many things in the Resolution and the Bill which must be examined in detail because of the indefiniteness of the Government about the nature of the expenditure, and I cannot escape the fact that these Amendments will have to be put down. The Patronage Secretary is watching me, and I hope that when the Amendments are put down he will exercise all the patience of which he is capable and let us deal in detail, as I have been promised the opportunity of doing, with the issues in which I am so much interested.

To be spending money on the continuance of Bills or Acts—

Mr. M. Turner-Samuels (Gloucester)

On bills.

Mr. Hudson

I was not thinking of it in that way. To be spending money on Bills which can no longer be justified, when the situation has so changed that expenditure on the organisation is no longer necessary, as we shall prove when we come to the details, is inexcusable. To spend money in the way we are asked, whether the sums be large or small—and in one case it is £120,000—is entirely inexcusable in these days. It is entirely out of line with the general promises which the Government are so frequently making to the House. It is out of line with the professions that the party opposite are constantly making to the country, and is not carrying out in any sense at all the principles for which they are presumably standing. I oppose this proposal.

The Chairman

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter.

Mr. Emrys Hughes (South Ayrshire)


The Chairman

I have called the Financial Secretary to the Treasury.

Mr. Emrys Hughes

On a point of order. Before the Financial Secretary speaks, should not there be some Minister representing Scotland to explain these complicated provisions?

The Chairman

That is not a point of order.

1.6 a.m.

The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Mr. John Boyd-Carpenter)

Sir Charles, your predecessor in the Chair indicated that debate on this Money Resolution was narrow and I hope, therefore, that I shall be able to deal with one or two points which have arisen during the course of this debate without incurring your displeasure.

Perhaps I may be allowed, first of all to comment on the speech of the hon. Member for Ealing, North (Mr. J. Hudson). His indignation, which was very apparent throughout his speech, at what he described as the vagueness of this Resolution, would have been just as relevant or irrelevant during the years that similar Money Resolutions—indeed, very often in identical terms—were moved in this Committee by right hon. Members who now adorn the Opposition Front Bench.

The hon. Member for Leicester, North-West (Mr. Janner), I think, was under a misapprehension. He objected to the provision in this Money Resolution of authority in connection with the Furnished Houses (Rent Control) Act, which he seemed to think was coming to an end. I can assure the hon. Gentleman first of all that it is not, and if he was not under that apprehension it really does appear that all he tried to say to the Committee must have been consciously instead of unconsciously irrelevant.

Mr. Janner

Would the hon. Gentleman be good enough to look at the terms of the Financial Memorandum? What said was that the words: On the assumption that the 68 tribunals will continue to operate as at present … were misleading because they were not correct. His right hon. Friend the Minister of Housing and Local Government told me that they were not going to continue those tribunals.

The Chairman

That surely applies to the Bill but not to the Money Resolution.

Mr. Janner

With respect, I was challenged on this point—

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

The hon. Gentleman can reassure himself, and if he would control himself I think I can reassure him. The fact remains that the Act is being retained in force and the system under it is continuing to operate. In the normal way financial cover is given on the assumption indicated in the Financial Memorandum, and really the hon. Gentleman is exciting himself quite unnecessarily if he tries to persuade himself or the Committee that there is anything unusual in the wholly usual procedure being followed.

Mr. Janner

On a point of order. Am I entitled or not to have a reply to a point about which I asked specifically? I asked whether this paragraph was true. I am told that it is untrue. The Minister of Housing and Local Government says it is not correct. He is reducing the tribunals. How can the Financial Secretary say that they are continuing?

The Chairman

I think this is quite a simple matter. This is dealing with expenses.

Mr. G. Lindgren (Wellingborough)

Further to that point of order. The submission is that not only under the present Government but under the previous Administration the tribunals were being reduced. Is it not now a fact that the 68 tribunals are not in existence? The Financial Secretary is asking for money for something which does not exist.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

That may be a point, but it is quite different from that which the hon. Member for Leicester, North-West put. Let me try once again to reduce the blood pressure of the hon. Member for Leicester, North-West. If he will look at the Financial Memorandum which he has quoted, he will see the words, "on the assumpton"; and, having read those, I hope he will apprehend that this is not necessarily a statement of a particular and existing fact. It is specifically, and expressly, "on the assumption."

Mr. Janner rose

The Chairman

If the Financial Secretary does not give way, the hon. Member must resume his seat.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

I do hope that the hon. Gentleman will try to restrain himself. He must by now be conscious of the fact that he is on a false point.

Mr. John Paton (Norwich, North)

On a point of order. May I ask for guidance, Sir Charles? The argument which is now put by the Financial Secretary is that he claims sums of money on what, according to his own explanation, is a financial hypothesis. Is that in order?

The Chairman

These are sums of money expended under the Acts which are being continued.

Mr. Paton

But the Financial Secretary has told the Committee that he is proceeding on an assumption; an assumption that it is within the general knowledge of the Committee is unfounded. Is it proper that a representative of the Government Front Bench should make such a proposition?

The Chairman

I shall stop the Financial Secretary if he is out of order, but at present I do not think he is.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

I am much obliged, Sir Charles, for that indication. May I now try to re-assure the hon. Member? The whole point of the question raised on this particular aspect of the Money Resolution appears to spring from hon. Members opposite entertaining the view that this system may operate less effectively than they wish. If that be their view, then surely it is necessary to make adequate financial provision to cover the operation to the fullest possible extent? If hon. Members opposite want this system to operate properly, it is only right to make provision of this sort. So, they should express gratitude to H.M. Government for the care which is taken to provide adequate financial cover.

The hon. Member for Islington, East (Mr. Eric Fletcher) raised the question of the provisions under the Cotton Manufacturing Industry (Temporary Provisions) Act. As the memorandum makes clear, that expenditure will only arise in the event of my right hon. Friend the Minister of Labour appointing the board allowed for. I understand that he has at present no intention of so doing but, if the very valuable machinery in the Act has to operate in all circumstances, then it is necessary for Parliament to provide adequate financial cover.

This Money Resolution is in the usual form, making the usual provision custo-

marily accepted by the Committee over a good many years. There are other stages of this Measure in which it is possible for hon. Members to raise points on the merits of which they may be interested, and I hope that this largely formal stage may now be accepted, leaving the later stages to be discussed in the ordinary way.

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Treasury (Mr. P. G. T. Buchan-Hepburn)

rose in his place, and claimed to move, "That the Question be now put."

Question put, "That the Question be now put."

The Committee divided: Ayes, 289; Noes, 266.

Division No. 7] AYES [1.15 a.m.
Aitken, W. T. Colegate, W. A. Harden, J. R. E.
Allan, R. A. (Paddington, S.) Conant, Maj. R. J. E. Hare, Hon. J. H.
Alport, C. J. M. Cooper, Sqn-Ldr. Albert Harris, Frederic (Croydon, N)
Amery, Julian (Preston, N.) Cooper-Key, E. M. Harris, Reader (Heston)
Amory, Heathcoat (Tiverton) Craddock, Beresford (Spelthorne) Harrison, Col. J. H. (Eye)
Anstruther-Gray, Major W. J. Cranborne, Viscount Harvey, Air Cdre. A. V. (Macclesfield)
Arbuthnot, John Crookshank, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. F. C. Harvey, Ian (Harrow, E.)
Ashton, H. (Chelmsford) Crosthwaite-Eyre, Col. O. E. Harvie-Watt, Sir George
Assheton, Rt. Hon. R. (Blackburn, W.) Crouch, R. F. Head, Rt. Hon. A. H.
Astor, Hon. J. J. (Plymouth, Sutton) Crowder, Sir John (Finchley) Heald, Sir Lionel
Baker, P. A. D. Crowder, Petre (Ruislip—Northwood) Heath, Edward
Baldock, Lt.-Comdr. J. M. Cuthbert, W. N. Henderson, John (Cathcart)
Baldwin, A. E. Darling, Sir William (Edinburgh, S.) Higgs, J. M. C.
Banks, Col. C. Davidson, Viscountess Hill, Dr. Charles (Luton)
Barber, Anthony Deedes, W. F. Hill, Mrs. E. (Wythenshawe)
Barlow, Sir John Digby, S. Wingfield Hinchingbrooke, Viscount
Baxter, A. B. Dodds-Parker, A. D. Hirst, Geoffrey
Beach, Maj. Hicks Donaldson, Cmdr. C. E. McA. Holland-Martin, C. J.
Beamish, Maj. Tufton Donner, P. W. Hollis, M. C.
Bell, Philip (Bolton, E.) Doughty, C. J. A. Holmes, Sir Stanley (Harwich)
Bell, Ronald (Bucks, S.) Douglas-Hamilton, Lord Malcolm Hope, Lord John
Bennett, F. M. (Reading, N.) Drayson, G. B. Hopkinson, Rt. Hon. Henry
Bennett, Dr. Reginald (Gosport) Drewe, C. Hornsby-Smith, Miss M. P.
Bennett, William (Woodside) Dugdale, Rt. Hn. Sir Thomas (Richmond) Horobin, I. M.
Bevins, J. R. (Toxteth) Duncan, Capt. J. A. L. Horsbrugh, Rt. Hon. Florence
Birch, Nigel Eccles, Rt. Hon. D. M. Howard, Gerald (Cambridgeshire)
Bishop, F. P. Elliot, Rt. Hon. W. E. Howard, Greville (St. Ives)
Black, C. W. Erroll, F. J. Hudson, Sir Austin (Lewisham, N.)
Boothby, R. J. G.
Boyd-Carpenter, J. A. Fell, A. Hudson, W. R. A. (Hull, N.)
Boyle, Sir Edward Finlay, Graeme Hulbert, Wing Cdr. N. J.
Braine, B. R. Fisher, Nigel Hurd, A. R.
Braithwaite, Sir Albert (Harrow, W.) Fleetwood-Hesketh, R. F. Hutchinson, Sir Geoffrey (Ilford, N.)
Braithwaite, Lt.-Cdr. G. (Bristol, N. W.) Fletcher-Cooke, C. Hutchison, Lt.-Com. Clark (E'b'rgh W.)
Bromley-Davenport, Lt.-Col. W. H. Fort, R. Hutchison, James (Scotstoun)
Brooke, Henry (Hampstead) Foster, John Hyde, Lt.-Col. H. M.
Brooman-White, R. C. Fraser, Hon. Hugh (Stone) Hylton-Foster H. B. H.
Browne, Jack (Govan) Fraser, Sir Ian (Morecambe & Lonsdale) Jenkins, Robert (Dulwich)
Buchan-Hepburn, Rt. Hon. P. G. T. Fyfe, Rt. Hon. Sir David Maxwell Johnson, Howard (Kemptown)
Bullard, D. G. Galbraith, Cmdr. T. D. (Pollok) Jones, A. (Hall Green)
Bullock, Capt. M. Galbraith, T. G. D. (Hillhead) Joynson-Hicks, Hon. L. W.
Bullus, Wing Commander E. E. Garner-Evans, E. H. Kaberry, D.
Burden, F. F. A. George, Rt. Hon. Maj. G. Lloyd Keeling, Sir Edward
Butcher, H. W. Godber, J. B. Kerr, H. W. (Cambridge)
Campbell, Sir David Gomme-Duncan, Col. A. Lambert, Hon. G.
Carr, Robert (Mitcham) Gough, C. F. H. Lambton, Viscount
Carson, Hon. E. Gower, H. R. Lancaster, Col. C. G.
Cary, Sir Robert Graham, Sir Fergus Langford-Holt, J. A.
Channon, H. Gridley, Sir Arnold Law, Rt. Hon. R. K.
Clarke, Col. Ralph (East Grinstead) Grimston, Hon. John (St. Albans) Leather, E. H. C.
Clarke, Brig. Terence (Portsmouth, W.) Grimston, Sir Robert (Westbury) Legge-Bourke, Maj. E. A. H.
Cole, Norman Hall, John (Wycombe) Legh, P. R. (Petersfield)
Lennox-Boyd, Rt. Hon. A. T. Oakshott, H. D. Speir, R. M.
Lindsay, Martin Odey, G. W. Spence, H. R. (Aberdeenshire, W.)
Linstead, H. N. O'Neill, Phelim (Co. Antrim, N.) Stanley, Capt. Hon. Richard
Lloyd, Rt. Hon. G. (King's Norton) Ormsby-Gore, Hon. W. D. Stevens, G. P.
Lloyd, Maj. Guy (Renfrew, E.) Orr, Capt. L. P. S. Steward, W. A. (Woolwich, W.)
Lockwood, Lt.-Col. J. C. Orr-Ewing, Charles Ian (Hendon, N.) Stewart, Henderson (Fife, E.)
Low, A. R. W. Orr-Ewing, Ian L. (Weston-super-Mare) Stoddart-Scott, Col. M.
Lucas, Sir Jocelyn (Portsmouth, S.) Osborne, C. Storey, S.
Lucas, P. B. (Brentford) Partridge, E. Strauss, Henry (Norwich, S.)
Lucas-Tooth, Sir Hugh Peake, Rt. Hon. O. Stuart, Rt. Hon. James (Moray)
Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. O. Perkins, W. R D. Studholme, H. G.
McAdden, S. J. Peto, Brig. C. H. M. Summers, G. S.
McCallum, Major D. Peyton, J. W. W. Sutcliffe, H.
McCorquodale, Rt. Hon. M. S. Pickthorn, K. W. M. Taylor, Charles (Eastbourne)
Macdonald, Sir Peter (I. of Wight) Pilkington, Capt. R. A. Taylor, William (Bradford, N.)
Mackeson, Brig. H. R. Powell, J. Enoch Teeling, W.
McKibbin, A. J. Price, Henry (Lewisham, W.) Thomas, Rt. Hon. J. P. L. (Hereford)
McKie, J. H. (Galloway) Prior-Palmer, Brig. O. L. Thomas, P. J. M. (Conway)
Maclay, Rt. Hon. John Profumo, J. D. Thompson, Kenneth (Walton)
Maclean, Fitzroy Raikes, H V. Thompson, Lt.-Cdr. R. (Croydon, W.)
Macleod, Rt. Hon. Iain (Enfield, W.) Rayner, Brig. R. Thornton-Kemsley, Col. C. N.
Macmillan, Rt. Hon. Harold (Bromley) Remnant, Hon. P. Tilney, John
Macpherson, Maj. Niall (Dumfries) Renton, D. L. M. Touche, Sir Gordon
Maitland, Comdr. J. F. W. (Horncastle) Roberts, Peter (Heeley) Turner, H. F. L.
Maitland, Patrick (Lanark) Robertson, Sir David Turton, R. H.
Manningham-Buller, Sir R. E. Robinson, Roland (Blackpool, S.) Tweedsmuir, Lady
Markham, Major S. F. Rodgers, John (Sevenoaks) Vane, W. M. F.
Marlowe, A. A. H. Roper, Sir Harold Vaughan-Morgan, J. K.
Marples, A. E. Ropner, Col. Sir Leonard Wakefield, Edward (Derbyshire, W.)
Marshall, Sir Sidney (Sutton) Russell, R. S. Wakefield, Sir Wavell (Marylebone)
Maude, Angus Ryder, Capt. R. E D. Ward, Hon. George (Worcester)
Maudling, R. Salter, Rt. Hon. Sir Arthur Ward, Miss I. (Tynemouth)
Maydon, Lt.-Comdr. S. L. C. Sandys, Rt. Hon. D. Waterhouse, Capt. Rt. Hon. C.
Medlicott, Brig. F. Savory, Prof. Sir Douglas Watkinson, H. A.
Mellor, Sir John Schofield, Lt.-Col. W. (Rochdale) Webbe, Sir H. (London & Westminster)
Molson, A. H E. Scott, R. Donald White, Baker (Canterbury)
Morrison, John (Salisbury) Scott-Miller, Cmdr. R. Williams, Rt. Hon. Charles (Torquay)
Mott-Radclyffe, C. E. Shepherd, William Williams, Gerald (Tonbridge)
Nabarro, G. D. N. Simon, J. E. S. (Middlesbrough, W.) Williams, Sir Herbert (Croydon, E.)
Nicholls, Harmar Smiles, Lt.-Col. Sir Walter Williams, R. Dudley (Exeter)
Nicholson, Godfrey (Farnham) Smithers, Peter (Winchester) Wills, G.
Nicolson, Nigel (Bournemouth, E.) Smithers, Sir Waldron (Orpington) Wilson, Geoffrey (Truro)
Nield, Basil (Chester) Smyth, Brig. J. G. (Norwood) Wood, Hon. R.
Noble, Cmdr. A. H. P. Snadden, W. McN.
Nugent, G. R. H. Soames, Capt. C. TELLERS FOR THE AYES:
Nutting, Anthony Spearman, A. C. M. Mr. Vosper and Mr. Redmayne.
Acland, Sir Richard Callaghan, L. J. Ewart, R.
Adams, Richard Carmichael, J. Fernyhough, E.
Albu, A. H. Castle, Mrs. B. A. Field, W. J.
Allen, Arthur (Bosworth) Champion, A. J. Fienburgh, W.
Anderson, Alexander (Motherwell) Chapman, W. D. Finch H. J.
Anderson, Frank (Whitehaven) Chetwynd, G. R. Fletcher, Eric (Islington, E.)
Attlee, Rt. Hon. C. R. Clunie, J. Follick, M.
Awbery, S. S. Coldrick, W. Foot, M. M.
Bacon, Miss Alice Collick, P. H. Forman, J. C.
Baird, J. Corbet, Mrs. Freda Fraser, Thomas (Hamilton)
Balfour, A. Craddock, George (Bradford, S.) Freeman, John (Watford)
Barnes, Rt. Hon. A. J. Crosland, C. A. R. Freeman, Peter (Newport)
Bartley, P. Crossman, R. H. S. Gaitskell, Rt. Hon. H. T. N.
Bellenger, Rt. Hon. F. J. Cullen, Mrs. A. Gibson, C. W.
Bence, C. R. Daines, P. Glanville, James
Benn, Wedgwood Dalton, Rt. Hon. H. Gooch, E. G.
Benson, G. Darling, George (Hillsborough) Gordon-Walker, Rt. Hon P. C.
Beswick, F. Davies, A Edward (Stoke, N.) Greenwood, Anthony (Rossendale)
Bevan, Rt. Hon. A. (Ebbw Vale) Davies, Ernest (Enfield, E.) Greenwood, Rt. Hn. Arthur (Wakefield)
Bing, G. H. C. Davies, Harold (Leek) Grey, C. F.
Blackburn, F. Davies, Stephen (Merthyr) Griffiths, David (Rother Valley)
Blenkinsop, A. de Freitas, Geoffrey Griffiths, Rt. Hon. James (Llanelly)
Blyton, W. R. Deer, G. Griffiths, William (Exchange)
Boardman, H. Delargy, H. J. Hall, Rt. Hon. Glenvil (Colne Valley)
Bottomley, Rt. Hon. A. G. Dodds, N. N. Hall, John T. (Gateshead, W.)
Bowden, H. W. Donnelly, D. L. Hamilton, W. W.
Bowles, F. G. Driberg, T. E. N. Hannan, W.
Braddock, Mrs. Elizabeth Dugdale, Rt. Hon. John (W. Bromwich) Hardy, E. A.
Brockway, A. F. Ede, Rt. Hon. J. C. Hargreaves, A.
Brook, Dryden (Halifax) Edelman, M. Hastings, S.
Broughton, Dr. A. D. D. Edwards, John (Brighouse) Hayman, F. H.
Brown, Rt. Hon. George (Belper) Edwards, Rt. Hon. Ness (Caerphilly) Healey, Denis (Leeds, S. E.)
Brown, Thomas (Ince) Edwards, W. J. (Stepney) Henderson, Rt. Hon. A. (Rowley Regis)
Burke, W. A. Evans, Albert (Islington, S. W.) Herbison, Miss M.
Burton, Miss F. E. Evans, Edward (Lowestoft) Hewitson, Capt. M.
Butler, Herbert (Hackney, S.) Evans, Stanley (Wednesbury) Hobson, C. R.
Holman, P. Morrison, Rt. Hon. H. (Lewisham, S.) Sorensen, R. W.
Holmes, Horace (Hemsworth) Mort, D. L. Soskice, Rt. Hon. Sir Frank
Houghton, Douglas Moyle, A. Sparks, J. A.
Hudson, James (Ealing, N.) Mulley, F. W. Steele, T.
Hughes, Cledwyn (Anglesey) Murray, J. D. Stewart, Michael (Fulham, E.)
Hughes, Emrys (S. Ayrshire) Nally, W. Stokes, Rt. Hon. R. R.
Hughes, Hector (Aberdeen, N.) Neal, Harold (Bolsover) Strachey, Rt. Hon. J.
Hynd, H. (Accrington) Noel-Baker, Rt. Hon. P. J. Strauss, Rt. Hon. George (Vauxhall)
Hynd, J. B. (Attercliffe) Oldfield, W. H. Stross, Dr. Barnett
Irvine, A. J. (Edge Hill) Oliver, G. H. Summerskill, Rt. Hon. E.
Irving, W. J. (Wood Green) Orbach, M. Swingler, S. T.
Isaacs, Rt. Hon. G. A. Oswald, T. Sylvester, G. O.
Janner, B. Padley, W. E. Taylor, Bernard (Mansfield)
Jay, Rt. Hon. D. P. T. Paget, R. T. Taylor, John (West Lothian)
Jeger, George (Goole) Paling, Rt. Hon. W. (Dearne Valley) Taylor, Rt. Hon. Robert (Morpeth)
Jenkins, R. H. (Stechford) Paling, Will T. (Dewsbury) Thomas, David (Aberdare)
Johnston, Douglas (Paisley) Palmer, A. M. F. Thomas, George (Cardiff)
Jones, David (Hartlepool) Pannell, Charles Thomas, Iorwerth (Rhondda, W.)
Jones, Frederick Elwyn (West Ham, S.) Pargiter, G. A. Thomas, Ivor Owen (Wrekin)
Jones, Jack (Rotherham) Parker, J. Thomson, George (Dundee, E.)
Jones, T. W. (Merioneth) Paton, J. Timmons, J.
Keenan, W. Pearson, A. Tomney, F.
Kenyon, G. Peart, T. F. Turner-Samuels, M.
Key, Rt. Hon. C. W. Plummer, Sir Leslie Ungoed-Thomas, Sir Lynn
King, Dr. H. M. Popplewell, E. Watkins, T. E.
Lee, Frederick (Newton) Porter, G. Webb, Rt. Hon. M. (Bradford, C.)
Lee, Miss Jennie (Cannock) Price, Joseph T. (Westhoughton) Weitzman, D.
Lever, Harold (Cheetham) Proctor, W. T. Wells, Percy (Faversham)
Lever, Leslie (Ardwick) Pursey, Cmdr. H. Wells, William (Walsall)
Lewis, Arthur Rankin, John West, D. G.
Lindgren, G. S. Reeves, J. Wheatley, Rt. Hon. John
Lipton, Lt.-Col. M. Reid, Thomas (Swindon) White, Mrs. Eirene (E. Flint)
MacColl, J. E. Reid, William (Camlachie) White, Henry (Derbyshire, N. E.)
McGhee, H. G. Rhodes, H. Whiteley, Rt. Hon. W.
McInnes, J. Robens, Rt. Hon A. Wigg, George
McKay, John (Wallsend) Roberts, Albert (Normanton) Wilcock, Group Capt. C. A. B.
McLeavy, F. Roberts, Goronwy (Caernarvonshire) Wilkins, W. A.
MacMillan, M. K. (Western Isles) Robinson, Kenneth (St. Pancras, N.) Willey, Frederick (Sunderland, N.)
McNeil, Rt. Hon. H. Rogers, George (Kensington, N.) Williams, David (Neath)
MacPherson, Malcolm (Stirling) Ross, William Williams, Rev. Llywelyn (Abertillery)
Mainwaring, W. H. Royle, C. Williams, Ronald (Wigan)
Mallalieu, E. L. (Brigg) Schofield, S. (Barnsley) Williams, W. R. (Droylsden)
Mallalieu, J. P. W. (Huddersfield, E.) Shackleton, E. A. A. Williams, W. T. (Hammersmith, S.)
Mann, Mrs. Jean Shawcross, Rt. Hon. Sir Hartley Wilson, Rt. Hon. Harold (Huyton)
Manuel, A. C. Shinwell, Rt. Hon. E. Winterbottom, Ian (Nottingham, C.)
Marquand, Rt. Hon. H. A. Short, E. W. Winterbottom, Richard (Brightside)
Mayhew, C. P. Shurmer, P. L. E. Woodburn, Rt. Hon. A.
Mellish, R. J. Silverman, Julius (Erdington) Wyatt, W. L.
Mikardo, Ian Silverman, Sydney (Nelson) Yates, V. F.
Mitchison, G. R. Simmons, C. J. (Brierley Hill) Younger, Rt. Hon. K.
Moody, A. S. Slater, J.
Morgan, Dr. H. B. W. Smith, Ellis (Stoke, S.) TELLERS FOR THE NOES:
Morley, R. Smith, Norman (Nottingham, S.) Mr. Wallace and Mr. James Johnson.
Morris, Percy (Swansea, W.) Snow, J. W.

Question put accordingly, and agreed to.

Resolution to be reported this day.