HC Deb 23 July 1952 vol 504 cc503-5
1. Mr. Shinwell

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Defence whether any manpower target for Her Majesty's Forces has been set by the Government; and for how long it is intended to continue National Service in its present form.

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Defence (Mr. Nigel Birch)

The manpower target for Her Majesty's Forces is set out in the Statement on Defence, 1952. As regards the second part of the Question, I have nothing to add to the answers given to the right hon. Gentleman by the Prime Minister on Monday last.

Mr. Shinwell

Yes, but as the manpower target has been practically achieved and there is sufficient manpower available in order to complete the plans already laid on for the various divisions required, particularly in the Army, why is it necessary to continue National Service in its present form?

Mr. Birch

The right hon. Gentleman is aware that if the period of National Service were reduced by six months that would result in a fall in the National Service men by 25 per cent., and that certainly is out of the question.

Mr. Shinwell

But why should that prove an obstacle? Surely the purpose is to provide as many trained men as is required. That has been practically achieved. Surely the time has come for some modification of the plan, especially as the needs of agriculture are paramount, and men ought to be returned to the agriculture industry?

Mr. Birch

I am not very clear whether the right hon. Gentleman is advocating a reduction in the period of National Service or the exemption of certain special classes.

Mr. Shinwell

Both.

Mr. Birch

Well, the right hon. Gentleman is aware of the arguments against special privileges for special classes, and I have no doubt he has deployed those arguments himself from this Box. He may also remember that just before the Whitsun Recess he committed himself to the view that it was impossible to defend Europe unless other countries accepted the same period of service as we have, and I hardly think it would be very encouraging to ask other countries to increase their period if we reduce ours.

Mr. T. Williams

As it is now recognised that agriculture is of the same importance as re-armament and the export trade, has not the time arrived when we ought to think again about calling up agricultural workers?

Mr. Birch

The importance of agriculture is realised, but the right hon. Gentleman should realise also that once we start giving a lot of special extensions we create difficulties, and unfairness is introduced which is resented by other classes.

Brigadier Prior-Palmer

Is not it a fact that at the present time we have reached the peak, as a result of the schemes for National Service and recruiting to the Regular Army, and from now on there will be a falling off? Surely it is a question of looking ahead to see what will be the figures at the end of one year, and not of looking at the figures at this moment?

Mr. Shinwell

Is it not true that hon. Members on the other side of the House have said time and again that, once we reached a substantial figure for the Regular Forces, six months' National Service would be sufficient?

Mr. Birch

I do not think that is so. The right hon. Gentleman will remember that we have had a good many alterations. He has supported 12 months, 18 months and two years. We cannot alter these things every five minutes.