HC Deb 09 July 1952 vol 503 cc1283-6
6. Mr. Profumo

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he will take steps to procure from the Dean of Canterbury the evidence of the use of germ warfare in Korea which is in his possession, with a view to the matter being discussed in this House.

Mr. Selwyn Lloyd

I have no power to oblige the Dean of Canterbury to produce the evidence of which he has spoken.

However, from what has appeared in the newspapers today, it is clear that the very reverend gentleman has no valid evidence at all; our view that these charges are baseless has been emphatically confirmed.

Mr. Profumo

As my right hon. and learned Friend's answer indicates, as I rather thought it would, that there is not the slightest shred of credible substance in the evidence which was given by the Dean, will my right hon. and learned Friend not agree that in this unholy outburst the Dean inflicted three slashing wounds on the British public, first of all, by gratuitously presenting the Communist propagandists all over the world with further vile material; second, by sewing seeds of doubt and misapprehension in the minds of our less knowledgeable folk; and third, by filling the hearts of the vast majority of people with very burning indignation that a high dignatory of the Church should be able to bear false and treacherous witness and still be permitted to remain in Holy Orders?

Mr. Speaker

The hon. Gentleman must not make a speech on this.

Mr. Profumo

I was asking a question, Sir.

Mr. Lloyd

I entirely agree with my hon. Friend that this sort of propaganda could be very dangerous. I think in this instance it has not been dangerous.

Mr. Profumo rose

—

Mr. Speaker

Order. Mr. Wyatt.

Mr. Wyatt

Is it not a fact that most people regard the Red Dean as a very good joke and not worth bothering about?

Mr. Profumo

On a point of order. In view of the unsatisfactory fact that it appears that no one will rid us of this turbulent priest, I give notice that I shall raise this matter again at the earliest opportunity.

10. Mr. Emrys Hughes

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what instructions were given to our delegates at the Security Council of the United Nations Organisation on the question of germ warfare.

Mr. Selwyn Lloyd

I would refer the hon. Member to the published records of the statements made by the United Kingdom delegate in the Security Council discussion which are, of course, available in the Library of this House. These statements were based on his instructions.

Mr. Hughes

Does the right hon. and learned Gentleman not agree, in view of the Communist allegation about germ warfare—[An HON. MEMBER: "And the Dean's."]—that it would be a good thing to give instructions to our delegates to the United Nations to press for the complete abolition of bacteriological warfare research in this country and in America? [HON. MEMBERS: "And Russia."] Well, bring in Russia, too. In view of the fact that America is spending 17 million dollars on bacteriological warfare research, and we have a bacteriological warfare station at Porton in this country—[Interruption.] Hon. Gentlemen opposite do not like to hear this bit—will not the Minister ask our delegates at the United Nations to press the International Red Cross to call for the shutting up of all these bacteriological warfare stations in every country?

Mr. Lloyd

I think the first step to take in regard to this matter of germ warfare is to have an impartial investigation into those allegations that have been made about Korea, and then we can consider the next step.

Lord John Hope

Would it not be a good idea if the hon. Member for South Ayrshire (Mr. Emrys Hughes) were to start by abolishing the bees in his own bonnet?

11. Mr. A. Henderson

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether, in view of the Russian veto on the proposed impartial investigation into the allegation that the United Nations forces in Korea have conducted germ warfare, he will instruct the British representative on the Security Council to propose that the matter be referred to the General Assembly under Article 10 of the Charter.

Mr. Selwyn Lloyd

Her Majesty's Government have noted with profound regret the action recently taken by the Soviet delegate on the Security Council in vetoing a proposal by the United States delegate that the International Red Cross should be allowed to conduct an impartial investigation into these allegations, which we believe to be baseless. Her Majesty's Government see no reason why the matter should be allowed to rest there, and they will associate themselves fully with any further action which it may prove possible to take to bring about an impartial investigation into these charges.

Mr. Henderson

Will the Government bear in mind that these allegations of germ warfare affect the good name and moral authority of the United Nations as a whole, and in view of the fact that the General Assembly is the parliament of the United Nations, will he not give an assurance that so far as Her Majesty's Government are concerned they will do everything possible to get it before the General Assembly?

Mr. Lloyd

I agree entirely with the first part of the supplementary question. The only point is that the Assembly does not meet until some date late in October, and we should much rather have the matter cleared up before then.

Mr. S. Silverman

In order that we may see the full facts of the matter before us, will the right hon. and learned Gentleman confirm that the reason for the Russian veto was that the Council had previously refused to grant any representation at all at the inquiry to the principal accusers, namely, North Korea and China; and is it not very difficult to regard, or to expect other people to regard, an investigation as impartial which denies a hearing to the principal accusers or the principal witnesses?

Mr. Lloyd

I do not agree at all that that was the substance of the Soviet veto. That explanation was put forward as a pretext, but I am perfectly certain that the fact of the matter is that they are not willing to have these charges investigated.

Mr. Henderson

May I ask the right hon. and learned Gentleman to answer the suggestion contained in the first part of my hon. Friend's supplementary? Surely, in the event of an impartial inquiry, evidence would be heard from the North Koreans as well as from the Chinese.

Mr. Lloyd

Of course evidence would be heard from all parties in an impartial inquiry.