HC Deb 18 December 1952 vol 509 cc1598-600
4. Mr. Janner

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that it has been held, in the case of Parvin v. Morton Machine Company Limited, that machines which are being made, repaired, or adapted for sale, are not machinery or plant within the meaning of the Factories Act, 1937; and whether he will take steps to introduce legislation to rectify the position so that Sections 14 (1), 16, and 20 of that Act, which relate to the fencing of machinery and the cleaning of it by women and young persons, shall apply to such machinery.

Sir W. Monckton

As was pointed out in the Court of Session, the application of the particular Sections mentioned to machinery which is being made, repaired, or altered and is not part of the factory equipment would involve serious practical difficulties.

I do not, however, understand the decision in Parvin's case to imply that appropriate statutory precautions in connection with such manufacture, repair or alteration cannot be required under the Factories Acts.

Mr. Janner

Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman look further into this matter, because already, as I understand, in Leicester and other places compensation is being refused to people who have sustained injuries in consequence of machinery not coming within the terms referred to in court, which is creating a very anomalous and serious position, particularly for those who are compelled by employers to work on that kind of machinery?

Sir W. Monckton

The difficulties, which the hon. Gentleman will remember were pointed out by Lord Jameson in the Court of Session, are there, but Section 60 of the Factories Act, 1937, enables special regulations to be made, and that would not be prevented by anything that has been said in Parvin's case. The point is whether it is appropriate to make such regulations, and in the light of the report I have had from my Chief Inspector of Factories I doubt whether it is possible.

Mr. Pannell

Does the Minister appreciate that this decision has caused considerable dismay to the trade unions in the engineering industry, and is completely contrary to anything they had understood with regard to the law; and will he take it from me that I have been requested, particularly by the Amalgamated Engineering Union, who have nearly 900,000 members interested— [HON. MEMBERS: Oh."] I wish hon. Gentlemen opposite would not interrupt when I am asking a very important question. Will the Minister bear in mind the extreme dismay and perturbation caused in engineering circles by this and give anxious attention to it, and possibly make a statement at an early date?

Sir W. Monckton

I appreciate that there are those who are worried about there being no cover in these particular circumstances, but I would point out that the courts and judges took the same view. I would like both hon. Gentlemen to consider that powers under Section 60 of the Factories Act do exist to cover a case like this. If they will bring any matter to my attention about which they consider I ought to make a regulation, I will bear it in mind.

Mr. Janner

In view of the unsatisfactory reply, I shall have to give notice that I will raise this matter on the Adjournment at the earliest opportunity.

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