HC Deb 03 December 1952 vol 508 cc1550-3
34. Mr. Driberg

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies to make a statement on the conditions in which suspects including women and children, are being detained in concentration camps in Kenya; and for what reason a gallows has been set up in one of these camps.

43. Mr. Edelman

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies for what purpose the gallows in a prison camp at Thomson's Falls have been erected; and whether he will state the circumstances in which executions of local murderers take place.

Mr. Lyttelton

There are no concentration camps in Kenya and the only gallows erected in the prisons are in Nairobi and at Thomson's Falls.

The conditions under which suspects are detained are as follows. There are two detention camps where 176 persons are detained under conditions similar to those of judgment debtors, except that rations are supplied free. Persons detained in police custody are provided with adequate sleeping accommodation. They are exercised daily and are not manacled while so detained. A morning and evening meal is provided and blankets are issued at night.

In addition, those Kikuyu males who have been evicted from Leshau Ward are being held in Thomson's Falls township, pending other arrangements. By day they are in the open, but at night or during rain shelter is available. They are fed by Government on the same scale of rations as is issued to remanded prisoners. Their women and children are housed in a number of temporary buildings where they feed themselves with food which they brought with them. Water and wood fuel is supplied by Government. All are within 400 yards of the hospital, and are visited daily by an African hospital assistant.

Mr. Driberg

Is it correct, as indicated in photographs, that this gallows has been set up newly in some kind of compound, or enclosure, or camp in which a large number of suspects are herded together, possibly many of them innocent people; and why has this been done? He has not answered either Question: what is the reason?

Mr. Lyttelton

The only gallows that are erected are erected in prisons. Of course, no public execution takes place in camps. Executions only take place in front of official representatives.

Mr. Driberg

The right hon. Gentleman has not answered the question.

Mr. Lyttelton

I have answered the question. There are no gallows erected in concentration camps, but only in prisons. I cannot go further.

Mr. Edelman

Is it not the case that the preliminaries of execution at Thomson's Falls do take place in full view of the internees, who squat round during that period; is this not barbarous, and will the right hon. Gentleman remove unconvicted internees, or alternatively remove the gallows?

Mr. Lyttelton

I do not know what the hon. Gentleman means by "internees." If he means people who are in prison, it may be that they see the gallows. That may be so.

Mr. Fernyhough

Why should they?

Mr. Lyttelton

That happens almost everywhere. [HON. MEMBERS: "No."] Or the building. Up to date every person convicted to undergo capital punishment has been transferred to Nairobi, but now gallows have been erected in Thomson's Falls Prison.

Mr. J. Griffiths

In view of the deep concern felt in the country at reports in the Press daily and answers to Questions, will the right hon. Gentleman not now reconsider the suggestion I have made more than once in discussing this matter, that there should go to Kenya a delegation of all parties of the House; and does he not realise that that would reassure people in this country and, I believe, help people in Kenya?

Mr. Lyttelton

I will certainly reconsider any suggestion made by the right hon. Gentleman, but I must say in all candour that at the present moment I do not think such a delegation would be in the interests of Kenya. I am somewhat surprised that those most anxious for self-government appear at times to be most anxious that we should intervene in these affairs.

Mr. Nicholson

Have some of the newspaper dispatches lacked some degree of accuracy?

Mr. Griffiths

The suggestion I made does not deal with self-government at all. That was a matter which was discussed when I was in Kenya 18 months ago. The suggestion is to send a delegation from this House of Commons—because we are finally responsible—to go to Kenya, to investigate conditions, and to come back and report, not to intervene in the affairs of the Government there.

Mr. Lyttelton

I must say quite frankly that I do not think that would at this moment serve a useful purpose. The Government of Kenya are dealing with a very difficult emergency and a series of atrocious crimes, and I should be hesitant to suggest measures such as the right hon. Gentleman now puts forward. I will, however, certainly keep this matter closely in view, and when I think such a suggestion would promote the public interest I will be very glad to accept it.

Mr. Wigg

Would not the right hon. Gentleman consider that the most effective reassurance he could give this country and Kenya would be if he resigned?

The Prime Minister (Mr. Winston Churchill)

An impudent remark.

Mr. Lyttelton

The hon. Gentleman, when he has been a little longer in this House, will know that these bilious comments do him no good.

Mr. Edelman

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I wish to give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment.