KITCHEN COMMITTEE (Hansard, 15 November 1951)

§ Mr. James Simmons (Brierley Hill)
When I prevented this Motion from being carried last night, it was with no intention of holding up the business of the House, but I think we do appoint these Committees sometimes without full consideration of what their responsibilities are and what their accountability is. We do have on the Order Paper at times Questions down to the Chairman of the Kitchen Committee. I sought to put such a Question down yesterday, and was told that the Kitchen Committee was not responsible for the particular matter I had in mind.
The Motion reads that we appoint the Kitchen Committee …to control the arrangements for the Kitchen and Refreshment Rooms in the department of the Serjeant at Arms attending this House, and I think that we ought to be able to ask tonight, what arrangements does the Committee control and what is the scope of the Questions that we shall be allowed to put to the Chairman of the Kitchen Committee when he is appointed after the Committee has been formed? Will he answer Questions on the prices charged in the Refreshment Rooms, on the conditions of the staff, on the quality of the food—on the strength of the tea, for instance, which is not very good at the moment—on profit and loss? We may also ask, if a peer on the prowl 1295 for good red meat strays into the Members' Dining Room, who is to say what hislocus standi in that Dining Room is?
If some of these Questions that I have suggested do not come under the control of the Chairman of the Kitchen Committee and he cannot answer such questions in the House, then that fact does open up a rather wide question, because there are far too many matters—I have found during my membership of this House—affecting the convenience and the effective carrying on of the duties of Members which cannot be ventilated in this House. After all, it is our House, and we ought to be masters in our House, and problems which affect the convenience of Members and the efficient carrying out of their duties ought to be easily ventilated on the Floor of the House.
Therefore, I should like to know whether we are giving wide enough powers to the Chairman of the Kitchen Committee to answer all Questions relevant to the rights, privileges, and the convenience of the Members who use the Refreshment Rooms of the House.

§ Mr. Speaker
I can only say that until the Kitchen and Refreshment Rooms Select Committee is appointed and has appointed its Chairman there is no one to answer the hon. Gentleman. Once that has been done, I should say that most of the matters to which he drew attention would be relevant subjects on which Questions could be addressed to the Chairman, when he is appointed. As neither he nor the Committee has been appointed, there is no one who can answer the hon. Gentleman.

§ Mr. Simmons
May I ask for an explanation? We are appointing the Committee on certain terms. If we appoint it on terms which are inadequate, however willing the Chairman may be to answer Questions, if they do not come within the terms of reference he cannot answer them. That is the point.

§ Mr. Speaker
I would say myself that the terms of reference in the Motion are wide enough to enable the Kitchen Committee as such to take full control over these matters. If at any time the hon. Gentleman feels that the scope of the Committee is inadequate, he is at perfect liberty to put down a Motion to that effect.

§ Mr. C. R. Hobson (Keighley)
I do not want to detain the House for more than a minute, but I do feel that we should have a few words of explanation on the very important points of principle that have been raised by my hon. Friend.

§ Mr. Speaker
I regret to say that there is no one to give that explanation. This is a Select Committee which is appointed by the House at the beginning of every Session; it is appointed by Members; its terms of reference are decided by the House, and its powers restricted and defined by the House. All the time it is in being it is liable to have these terms altered by the House. It is merely a piece of machinery, but I am sorry to say that at the moment there is no one who can answer these questions.

§ Sir William Darling (Edinburgh, South)
May I claim your indulgence and guidance in this matter, Mr. Speaker? Has the House no right to inquire into the qualifications of the hon. Members submitted as Members of the Committee? Are we not entitled to ask, on this very innermost matter of the inner man, the extent to which these hon. Gentlemen have qualifications to serve on this important Committee. I think I am right in saying that it is the only executive Committee of your House, Mr. Speaker; it is the only Committee of the House of Commons which differs from all other Select Committees in that it has executive powers quite independent of the House itself.
In those circumstances, though it is unusual, I find myself not even remotely in disagreement with hon. Gentlemen opposite. I should like to ask what are the qualifications of these hon. Gentlemen. To me they are names which, of course, command my respect; but it is in the political arena that they command my respect. In the difficult business of cuisine where do they stand? Are they sound in their financial judgment? Because, as you know, we have a very large debt in this somewhat mismanaged Committee. These are important and pertinent questions which at some time the House must raise. It is an important matter to appoint these hon. Gentlemen. Are they aware that the Kitchen Committee is £30,000 in debt? Are they persons of financial probity—?

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. I was going to put the next part of the Motion, which includes the names, on which the hon. Gentleman's questions would be in order. I would point out, too, that if there is any opposition to this after ten o'clock, the Motion cannot go through.

§ Sir W. Darling
Is it desirous that four should be the quorum? I should have thought that for important business of this kind a larger quorum than four would be desirable. Are four persons to decide whether I have sausages or caviare—