HC Deb 09 May 1951 vol 487 cc1954-8
48 and 49. Major Legge-Bourke

asked the Minister of Defence (1) if he will make a statement on the recent appointments of Commanders-in-Chief of Home Station, United Kingdom Land Forces and Fighter Command;

(2) which of the higher appointments in the Armed Forces are on a part-time basis; and at what stage in mobilisation plans these appointments become full-time.

50. Mr. Nigel Fisher

asked the Minister of Defence why General Dempsey's position as Chairman of the new Commanders-in-Chief Committee was not made a full-time appointment.

51. Lieut.-Colonel Lipton

asked the Minister of Defence whether the three posts of Commanders-in-Chief of the Navy, Army, and Air Force for the defence of the United Kingdom are full-time appointments.

53. Mr. Blackburn

asked the Minister of Defence what special arrangements have been made whereby General Sir Miles Dempsey has been enabled to assume his new appointment as Commander-in-Chief Home Forces on a part-time basis.

Mr. Shinwell

As announced last week, the Government have decided that the responsibility for the defence of the United Kingdom in the event of war should be exercised by three Commanders-in-Chief responsible to the Chiefs of Staff (the Commander-in-Chief Portsmouth (at present Admiral Sir Arthur Power), General Sir Miles Dempsey and the Air Officer Commanding-in-Chief Fighter Command (Air Marshal Sir Basil Embry)). General Dempsey acts as Chairman.

Admiral Power and Air Marshal Embry have, of course, full-time appointments already. General Dempsey has only a part-time appointment because, at this stage, the Committee is concerned only with planning. The three Commanders-in-Chief are able to meet often enough to ensure the necessary co-ordination of plans and they work through existing Service staffs. The position will, of course, be watched and, should it prove necessary in the light of experience, General Dempsey's appointment will be made full-time.

General Dempsey is a member of the Regular Army Reserve of Officers who, in the special circumstances I have described, is filling a part-time post. I know of no other higher appointment in the Armed Forces which is on a part-time basis.

Major Legge-Bourke

May I first ask the Minister to bear in mind that in putting down this Question I did not intend in any way to reflect upon General Dempsey, for whom I have the highest regard, as, I think, we all have. Would he also bear in mind that this appointment is, in the eyes of the country, an extremely important one, and that it might perhaps seem more appropriate if it were made full-time, so that General Dempsey could devote his whole time to it?

Mr. Shinwell

That is precisely the point which was given very full consideration by the Chiefs of Staff and myself when the matter was put before us. It seemed quite clear that this does not require to be a full-time appointment at this stage. It is merely a planning exercise. No doubt it may evolve into something much more important, but at present it is not regarded as necessary to go beyond this.

Mr. Blackburn

While entirely endorsing what the hon. and gallant Gentleman has said about General Dempsey, may I nevertheless urge the Minister to reconsider this matter immediately? It is absolutely wrong that the man responsible for the defence of this country in the event of invasion should have equal priorities for betting and defence. It is high time we treated this appointment with the priority it deserves.

Mr. Shinwell

The hon. Member is quite wrong. The primary responsibility rests with the Chiefs of Staff, and the planning committee over which General Sir Miles Dempsey will preside is responsible to the Chiefs of Staff.

Lieut.-Colonel Lipton

Is my right hon. Friend satisfied that there was no serving officer, not on the retired list, capable of filling this Army appointment?

Mr. Shinwell

That was considered, but General Sir Miles Dempsey has a first-class reputation and it was thought that he was the appropriate person to act as chairman of this Committee.

Mr. Eden

May I, first, without offence, endorse what has been said about General Dempsey, whose appointment, I think, everybody will approve? Second, will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that what is troubling us is that while the responsibility may be that of the Chiefs of Staff, it is, of course, impossible for the Chiefs of Staff to exercise any form of command? Will he explain how command can ever be exercised on a part-time basis?

Mr. Shinwell

Command, in war-time, is quite a different matter from the position of Commander-in-Chief in peacetime, as no doubt the right hon. Gentleman would agree. As I say, this is purely a planning exercise. There are no actual operations in train but, of course, there may be operations, and the three officers concerned, with their responsibility to the Chiefs of Staff and the Ministry of Defence, will be responsible for making the necessary planning arrangements. We have gone carefully into this matter. I must confess that I was somewhat doubtful myself about the propriety of appointing anyone part-time, but on the advice of the Chiefs of Staff, who, presumably, know a good deal about these matters, I agreed that this should be, at any rate for the time being, a part-time appointment.

Mr. W. Fletcher

In view of the fact that the right hon. Gentleman used the term "concerned only with planning," will he give the House an assurance that planning which occupies the time of high officers just as much before an outbreak of hostilities as command during hostilities, is in the hands of whole-time employed officers?

Mr. Shinwell

Though General Sir Miles Dempsey acts as chairman, it is not to be supposed that he is responsible for the whole of the planning studies. Those studies are undertaken by a great many persons employed in the three Service Departments and at the Ministry of Defence. As I have said, we shall watch this, and if we consider that an opportune moment has arrived when the appointment should be vested in a person full-time, we shall certainly do so.

Mr. Eden

Could I ask the right hon. Gentleman to bear in mind that plans and commands are completely distinct? The anxiety we have is that it does not really lie with Chiefs of Staff in any circumstances to carry out commands. We would like to feel that those who carry out commands are applying their whole time to that task.

Mr. Shinwell

I do not wish to quarrel with the right hon. Gentleman. This is, as no doubt he will agree, a technical matter upon which it is essential that I should take guidance from those who are my military advisers. For the moment I have accepted their advice, but as I have said more than once, the matter will be carefully studied and it may be necessary to make some change in the arrangement.

Mr. Blackburn

Is it at least clear that for the time being, General Dempsey's defence responsibilities will have priority over any other responsibilities which he may have in relation to other matters?

Mr. Shinwell

I prefer to trust to the integrity of General Sir Miles Dempsey.