§ Mr. ChurchillMay I ask the Leader of the House what steps he proposes to take as a result of his intervention last night on the question of Prayers?
§ The Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mr. Ede)I hope that discussions on the most suitable way of dealing with the subject may commence through the usual channels.
§ Mr. ChurchillWith great respect to the usual channels—that valuable institution—might I ask the right hon. Gentleman how it was that the usual channels were not informed beforehand of his intention to make a statement of that character late last night; and how it was that full information was given to all his supporters, including the Prime Minister and others, whereas the Conservative Party, and I believe the Liberal Party, were not at all informed that any statement of that kind was to be made? Having regard to the fact that the right hon. Gentleman's statement was intended to be of a conciliatory or deprecatory character, surely it would have been better to extend the usual courtesies.
§ Mr. EdeI am exceedingly anxious to extend the usual courtesies but I hope that I may also expect them. [Interruption.]The right hon. Gentleman himself certainly has never shown me anything other than courtesy and great kindness, and I frankly acknowledge it. But during the course of the discussions on the Prayers which have taken place during the past fortnight or so, the responsibility for the Prayers has not been accepted by those who sit beside the right hon. Gentleman on that Bench. May I say that none of my hon. Friends was informed of the course which I proposed to take? When I rose, the only people who knew the course I was to take were my colleagues in the Cabinet——
§ Mr. ChurchillAre they not the right hon. Gentleman's friends?
§ Mr. EdeNot all friends are colleagues. May I say that I have yet to know that it is an expected courtesy from a hunted animal to inform the harriers of the course which he intends to take?
§ Mr. ChurchillI am all against cruelty to animals, whether we are talking of hares or rabbits. But may I say to the right hon. Gentleman that I am not at all sure that ordinary discussion through the usual channels will deal with the matter of grave constitutional importance which he has raised. I think it would be better if the discussion took place between himself and me; or himself and some other colleague, and me and another colleague. I do not consider that this is a matter for settlement, as it were, through the two Whips' rooms, excellent and admirable as are their representatives on 2313 both sides. But of course I should be quite ready to receive the right hon. Gentleman—[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."]—my room is on the ground floor anyhow. If there is any point to be made of it we could, of course, meet on neutral ground—accompanied by seconds—to have a discussion on this matter. Certainly it would be very wrong that anybody on either side should refrain from or refuse fully to discuss these matters. Perhaps the point of how, and where and when such a discussion should take place might well be relegated to the usual channels; while the merits and the general decision must be done on a different—I must not say higher—but a different level from that.
But there seems to me to be one considerable obstacle to this discussion. It is the threat and the pressure involved in the action of the President of the Board of Trade in suspending price talks with trade organisations. He announced yesterday to the newspapers friendly to the party opposite, and late at night, hen the statement was being made here, to the rest of the Press—and this is a very serious matter—[Interruption.]—the attempt——
Mr. Deputy-SpeakerI hope the right hon. Gentleman will confine himself to question and answer and not to matters of debate.
§ Mr. ChurchillI hope I shall get the reasonable fair play we expect on this side of the House—[HON. MEMBERS: "Withdraw."]—I have no intention of withdrawing. Hon. Gentlemen really make a great mistake in thinking they can intimidate me. I know what my rights are. I have the greatest respect for the Chair—[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."]—and I believe that I shall be accorded the rights which anybody else in my position would have been accorded in former Parliaments. I ask, is not it an obstacle to the beginning of these talks—I quite agree I should put it in interrogative form—that a threat should be used of maltreating, contrary to the merits of their cases, the traders of many different classes in this country as a means of putting pressure on Members of the House of Commons to refuse them their Parliamentary rights and privileges long established by practice and custom of this House? And how does the right hon. Gentleman reconcile such a situation—I am asking 2314 the question—with the proposal for friendly conversations—personally friendly and on general grounds I trust—which the right hon. Gentleman has come to us asking us to begin?
§ Mr. EdeAt the commencement of the somewhat lengthy question of the right hon. Gentleman I really thought we were getting on—and may I say I do not want to be particular as to whether our respective positions mean that he should come to me, or I should go to him. Nothing would give me greater pleasure than to meet him, and a representative of the Liberal Party, with such other persons as he might choose to nominate to accompany him. I have no doubt such a meeting could be arranged.
With regard to the latter part of his observations, I will make inquiries as to exactly what has happened; for I am exceedingly anxious that this matter should be brought into the atmosphere that, in spite of all the difficulties, we managed to get last night, and until the latter part of the recent remarks of the right hon. Gentleman I had hoped—[HON. MEMBERS: "No."]—we had managed somewhat to strengthen. I can assure him that all my right hon. and hon. Friends are exceedingly anxious that there should be no curtailment of the legitimate rights of the House, and that we shall be able to secure agreement in such a way as will make, I hope, for the increased efficiency of public business in this particular sphere; and if there is anything that has occurred which has stood in the way, I shall see what can be done with regard to it.
§ Mr. ChurchillI feel great difficulty in these meetings beginning until the threat—[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."]—of the President of the Board of Trade, as I said, to subject to great hardship large and important sections of manufacturers and others in the country, by denying them their rights and treating them severely, is withdrawn. I do not propose that we should enter into any conversations of a friendly character—[Interruption.]—I do not fear hon. Gentlemen opposite half as much as they fear their fellow countrymen. I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether we can have a withdrawal by the President of the Board of Trade as a prelude to this conversation——
§ Mr. EdeI have promised the right hon. Gentleman that I will have a conversation with my right hon. Friend, and I have no doubt that the result of that conversation may, without undue loss of dignity to either of us, be conveyed to him through the usual channels.
§ Mr. ChurchillThis is really a serious matter. [Interruption.] Is not this really a serious matter, and would it not be a great disadvantage to the House if the possibilities of friendly personal contact came to an end? May I hope that I shall hear from the right hon. Gentleman in the course of the afternoon—[HON. MEMBERS: "NO."]—that I shall hear from him before he expects me to meet him, with or without companions? I hope I shall hear from him that the President of the Board of Trade has withdrawn his threat.
§ Mr. KirkwoodWe will not tolerate that here.
§ Mr. EdeI understand that the right hon. Gentleman's present view is that it is a prerequisite to any conversations between us that the action taken by my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade shall be brought to an end. May I say that I have already promised him that I will consult my right hon. Friend on the matter? I will inform the right hon. Gentleman of the result. I understand that if I have to say that it cannot be withdrawn, our earlier amicable exchanges have led to nothing. That, I think, would be exceedingly unfortunate.
§ Mr. ChurchillMay I assure the right hon. Gentleman that I could not have expected a more decent answer than the one he has given—nor did I. I shall await any further communication he has to make to me.