HC Deb 05 March 1951 vol 485 cc11-2
19. Mr. P. Thorneycroft

asked the Minister of Transport if he will give a direction to the British Transport Commission to continue all existing road haulier permits until the Transport (Amendment) Bill has been reported from the Standing Committee.

Mr. Barnes

No, Sir. The only powers under the Transport Act which would conceivably enable me to issue such a direction are those contained in Section 4, and these I am not empowered to exercise unless it appears to me to be in the national interest to do so.

Mr. Thorneycroft

How can the right hon. Gentleman possibly justify the right of the Commission to go on running these men out of business, contrary to the expressed view of the majority of the House of Commons?

Major Sir David Maxwell Fyfe

Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that when the House gives a Second Reading to a Bill it approves the principle of that Bill, and that the principle of this Bill was that the granting or revocation of permits should be referred to the licensing authorities? Does not the right hon. Gentleman think that when both Houses of Parliament have approved of a principle the national interest demands some effort to give effect to the will of the people?

Mr. Barnes

The right hon. and learned Gentleman apparently is overlooking the fact that this is an amending Bill to an Act of Parliament which is already on the Statute Book. The Bill still has to go through certain procedure in the House, and until it has gone through that procedure it does not override the obligations imposed by statute upon the Minister.

Sir D. Maxwell Fyfe

Is the right hon. Gentleman really telling us that when the House has given approval to a principle the administration of His Majesty's Government is not going to give effect to that approval?

Mr. Barnes

May I again remind the right hon. and learned Gentleman that I am empowered under the Transport Act to give a direction to the Transport Commission only if it is in the national interest. I fail to see that it is in the national interest that the Second Reading of this Bill should over-ride a statutory obligation imposed upon myself.

Mr. Bowles

Are we now to understand from the questions put by the Opposition that once a Bill has been carried on Second Reading they will never oppose the Third Reading of that Bill?

Mr. Keeling

Does the Minister not recall that when the House, at the Committee stage, abolished capital punishment the Home Secretary suspended hangings, which certainly could not be considered to be in the public interest?