CHAIRMAN OF WAYS AND MEANS (MOTION)

HC Deb 19 June 1951 vol 489 cc243-5

Mr. Churchill

May I ask the Leader of the House whether he has come to any conclusion about the Motion standing on the Order Paper in my name and the names of my right hon. Friends on this bench on the question of a Ruling by the Chairman of Ways and Means?

[That this House views with concern the decision of the Chairman of Ways and Means so to exercise his powers of selection as to exclude Amendments to Clause 1 of the Finance Bill, which would have permitted the House to debate and pronounce upon specific burdens imposed upon individuals and industries.]

I gave the right hon Gentleman some notice of this Question. Has he reached any conclusion as to what course the Government should take?

Mr. Ede

It is quite clear that a Motion of that kind cannot remain on the Order Paper undebated. If the Motion remains on the Order Paper, it will be the duty of the Government to find time for its discussion at the earliest possible date. In normal circumstances I should have expected the debate to have taken place before now, but owing to the timetable of the Finance Bill and the necessity of getting it into law by 5th August, it has not been possible to make a suggestion up to the present. I can assure the right hon. Gentleman that I have the need for an early debate on this Motion, if it remains on the Order Paper, very much in my mind.

Mr. Churchill

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman—I have to adhere to the interrogative form—whether he is aware that the statement he has made will, I think, give general satisfaction, because undoubtedly it represents the proper and correct conduct of the House in these difficult and delicate matters. I am very glad indeed—perhaps I ought to say, am I not very glad indeed—to hear that the right hon. Gentleman will have this matter cleared, in one way or the other, from the Order Paper. I cannot refer to it without saying that there is nothing personal about the Chairman of the Committee; it is a constitutional issue which is involved, and which we think ought to be cleared out of the way. The longer it remains in its present indeterminate position, the more danger there is of people in the country reading these words and using them perhaps with an undue freedom. Therefore, it seems desirable that the matter should be settled, and I am glad to have the assurance of the right hon. Gentleman.

The only other question I wish to ask him is whether it might be worth while for the Committee of Privileges dealing with the case which was remitted to them yesterday by the House to wait and see what is the view of the House of Commons upon the issue contained in this Motion.

Mr. Ede

I am very glad if anything I can do makes the right hon. Gentleman glad, because I have had some doubts about his attitude on that matter in the past. May I say that I think that the Motion on the Order Paper is a matter for the House itself and we cannot expect the business of the House to proceed as it should while a Motion that implies censure on one of the occupants of the Chair remains on the Order Paper.

Mr. Churchill

That is absolutely right.

Mr. Ede

The right hon. Gentleman's patronage is sometimes very embarrassing. May I say that it is apt to be misunderstood in certain quarters of the House? This is a distinct House of Commons domestic issue—

Mr. Churchill

Yes.

Mr. Ede

The question that was raised yesterday with regard to a breach of Privilege is not in the same category. I could not answer today as Chairman of the Committee of Privileges as to what attitude they will adopt when they come to consider the matter—

Earl Winterton

I should hope not.

Mr. Ede

I seem to give such satisfaction to the Opposition Front Bench that I sometimes wonder why they give me so much trouble at later hours of the day. Undoubtedly the Committee of Privileges will have to consider the matter remitted to them in the light of all these circumstances and I cannot today—and I am quite sure my fellow Members would resent it if I did—give any answer for them.

Mr. Churchill

I should like to thank the right hon. Gentleman for the admirable manner in which he has dealt with this issue, and I earnestly hope that any suggestion of patronage will not get him into trouble in his own family.