HC Deb 14 June 1951 vol 488 cc2627-52

(1) For the purpose of calculating the duty of excise chargeable under section six of the Vehicles (Excise) Act, 1949, in respect of a mechanically-propelled vehicle of a description specified in paragraph 2 of the Fifth Schedule to that Act, being a vehicle registered under the Roads Act, 1920, or that Act, the following paragraph shall be substituted for the said paragraph 2, that is to say—

"2. Other vehicles—

If registered under the Roads Act, 1920, or this Act

£ s. d.
Not exceeding 7 horse power 7 10 0
Exceeding 7 horse power 10 0 0."

(2) This section shall come into operation on the first day of January, nineteen hundred and fifty-two.—[Mr. Joynson-Hicks.]

Brought up, and read the First time.

9.0 p.m.

Mr. Joynson-Hicks

I beg to move, "That the Clause be read a Second time."

We appreciate the fact that you, Major Milner, have selected this new Clause for consideration. It is well known that it has been debated before and it will there- fore not be necessary for us to debate it at length. We can put our arguments and our case quite shortly, knowing that the right hon. Gentleman is himself well seized of the arguments on both sides.

Briefly, the object of the new Clause is to effect justice by removing an anomaly. It is to make the £10 flat-rate motor car tax universal, except for cars which are rated at 7 horse-power or less, which will be flat-rated for tax purposes at £7 10s. That, very briefly, summarises a rather technical form of Clause.

I would remind the Committee that all hon. Members, and in particular motorists, welcomed the introduction of the flat-rate principle in the Budget of 1947. Since then we have been waiting for the justification of the claim of the right hon. Gentleman the present Minister of Local Government and Planning as a political tipster. The Committee will remember the words he used on that occasion, when he was dealing with this matter and answering an Amendment which had very much the same effect as the Clause I am now moving he said: …it is a pretty safe bet that at some date in the not far distant future the Amendment put down by my hon. Friend will be adopted. I am making no promise—it would be wrong to do so—for next year."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 9th July, 1947; Vol. 439, c. 2276.] Four years have passed and the safe bet of the right hon. Gentleman has not yet come home. I hope that the present Chancellor will tonight make sure that the political wisdom and foresight of his right hon. Friend will be justified.

The reasons I refer to that in particular are, first, to show the Committee that even upon the introduction of this provision the then Chancellor of the Exchequer recognised that he was creating an anomaly which sooner or later would have to be relieved. The second reason is to show that right from the inception there was no question at all of any party issue in this matter. Since then hon. Gentlemen on the other side of the Committee have, on successive Finance Bills, moved a Clause in similar, if not identical, terms to the one I am now moving. All hon. Members have at times, perhaps one may say particularly at election times, promised their constituents they would do all they could to remove this anomaly. Therefore, I hope we shall receive support for this new Clause from all parts of the Committee.

The weight of this horse-power tax still left on the pre-1947 cars falls primarily on the poorer class of motorist. It is not the poor motorist who can afford to buy a new car. Generally speaking, he has to rely on the older car which still bears the horse-power tax, and those who are able to afford a more expensive new car can gain the benefit of the £10 flat-rate tax.

I want to deal particularly with the argument which has frequently been put forward that there is rough justice in this division between the horse-power tax and the Purchase Tax; that because owners of pre-1947 cars did not pay Purchase Tax they should, therefore, be mulcted of the horse-power tax. That argument is entirely fallacious. To begin with, Purchase Tax was paid on all cars of the vintages between 1941 and 1947. Therefore, owners of those cars have paid both Purchase Tax and the horse-power tax as well.

Secondly, so much time has now elapsed that in respect of the pre-war car about as much horse-power tax has been paid as would have been paid in Purchase Tax had it been a new car. To quote an example, a 20 h.p. car first licensed in 1939 will by now have contributed £325 to the Revenue in the horse-power tax which will have been paid, and it will go on paying tax at that high rate. Therefore, that argument is fallacious and it establishes that this anomalous system under which we are taxed at present does not even produce rough justice.

The other point with which I particularly want to deal concerns the argument which has always been used by each successive Chancellor of the Exchequer, that to remove this injustice would cost the taxpayer £6 million. Originally, in the first year, 1947, the figure given was £5,500,000 but, instead of depreciating, as I think the Chancellor of the day anticipated, it rose the next year to £6 million, and it has remained static ever since. I anticipate that the Chancellor will claim that to grant justice in this case would cost him £6 million in a full year.

The first comment I want to make against that is that in the financial returns for last year, the Budget receipts for motor taxation were £5,500,000 in excess of the Budget expectations. Therefore, the right hon. Gentleman last year knocked up practically the whole of that £6 million which he estimated it would cost him to grant justice. He has got the money with which to do it if he wants to do it. The other point is that I do not believe—and I think that the right hon. Gentleman's advisers will be able to satisfy him on this point—that he would lose anything at all. In fact, he might even make a profit by it, and I hope that that will appeal to his instinct.

I pointed out that this £6 million has remained static year by year. That is not because there are no cars which fall by the wayside or because there are no accidents. Cars, like old soldiers, fade away. It is not because none has faded away. It is because there is a large pool of unlicensed pre-1947 cars in this country, in garages and barns all over the place, which are not being put on the road because of this tax. In a fairly recent letter to "The Times," one authority has estimated that there are no fewer than 250,000 such cars available in a pool to be brought out if a flat-rate tax is imposed instead of the horse-power tax.

Be that as it may, if we assume that the flat-rate tax would bring back on to the roads only 100,000 cars—and that is a minimum estimate—their coming back would introduce into the Revenue, by the taxation from all sources which they would attract, a sum of £4 million. Therefore, two-thirds of the right hon. Gentleman's costs of granting justice would immediately return to him. In addition to that, there would be the cars that would maintain an annual licence instead of a quarterly one, and there would be a very substantial saving in administrative costs by a simplification of the system. Therefore, I maintain that this proposal would not cost the right hon. Gentleman anything, and would probably result in a profit to the taxpayer. In addition to that, it would very probably ease the secondhand car market, which would be an advantage to everybody.

To sum up, the anomaly has been admitted. The right hon. Gentleman said last year that it was a slight anomaly, and in using that expression I think he was rather less generous than usual. I think that he was also under-estimating the feeling in the country about this anomaly, because it is very largely felt indeed. It is agreed that justice should be done, but for four years the Government have yielded justice to expediency. Now the right hon. Gentleman can give justice with profit, and we therefore sincerely hope that he will accept the new Clause.

Mr. Gammans (Hornsey)

I need not spend much time supporting the arguments in favour of this new Clause, because they were all put over with such vigour and fluency by hon. Gentlemen opposite last year and the year before. What I think is so curious about the Committee stage of this Finance Bill is that not a single new Clause has been put down on the Order Paper on any conceivable subject by hon. Members opposite. Why are they not supporting this new Clause? The situation has not changed. Have they become more docile in the past year than they were before? Last year, they made the most eloquent speeches, though it is true that they did not back them up in the Lobbies; at any rate, they made the speeches, and I hope we shall have some from them tonight.

I imagine that the Chancellor's attitude is simply that he would very much like to grant this concession, and that he would like to do so if for no other reason than that there was an implied pledge to do it on the part of the Government three years ago. I imagine that the attitude the right hon. Gentleman will take is that he simply cannot afford it, and therefore I hope he will pay very special attention to this question of extra revenue to which my hon. Friend the Member for Chichester (Mr. Joynson-Hicks) referred a moment ago.

I want to put forward the argument on one ground only. Hon. Gentlemen opposite are always proclaiming the fact that they believe in fair shares for all. Surely, that carries with it the corollary of fair burdens for all, and surely if there is one section of the community which is having more than its unfair share of burden it is the motorists today. If I might briefly mention the way in which the motorist has been treated in the past few years, I would say that, first of all, there was 9d. a gallon put on petrol, and then there is another 4½d. per gallon this year. Then, the Purchase Tax has been increased, and the motoring community has been asked to accept disproportionate cuts in the home market in order to keep the export market going.

No one objects to that, and the Chancellor and his hon. Friends have always paid tribute to the way in which our export trade depends upon motor cars, but there is no other industry which bears that share. Clothes, boots and shoes, bicycles—none have suffered the cuts applied to the motor industry, which have made it all the more difficult for people to get new cars and to enjoy the £10 tax. In addition, so far as burdens are concerned, nothing is being spent on new roads, and an inadequate sum on the old ones.

9.15 p.m.

My last point is that we still have no branded petrol; we are still putting up with a lower octane petrol than in most parts of the world. I suggest it is a matter of unequal burdens being placed on one section of the community, and it is on those grounds, above all, that I ask the Chancellor to make this concession. After all, the motorist pays his ordinary-taxation like the rest of us. He pays his Income Tax, and all the indirect forms of taxation, and I do suggest—

The Chairman

The hon. Gentleman's latter remarks have referred to motorists as a whole. This new Clause refers only to particular motorists who own cars of a particular age.

Mr. Gammans

All motorists put up with these burdens, but, in addition, this particular section of motorists to whom I am referring pay this high taxation, and, what is more, have to bear the very high cost of keeping old cars on the road. I am sure that any hon. Member who has an old car would agree with me that it costs a fantastic sum of money to keep such cars on the road. Do let us get it out of our heads that everyone who owns a motor car uses it only for pleasure. Two out of three people who own a car today use it for some form of business or profession.

I hope the right hon. Gentleman will give consideration to this point. We on this side do not believe that he is going to lose any money; if he does, it will only be a very small sum at the very worst, and it will mean, as my hon. Friend the Member for Chichester pointed out, that many cars which are today locked up will come on to the road again. In granting this concession, not only will the Chancellor be redeeming the pledge of his Government, but also the pledge given by about 70 hon. Members opposite at the time of the General Election that they would support a Clause like this if it ever came before the Committee. I suggest, in addition, that he will be doing an elemental act of justice to a small section of the community.

Mr. Edelman (Coventry, North)

In spite of the way in which the hon. Member for Hornsey (Mr. Gammans) has advocated this Clause, I would ask my right hon. Friend to address his attention to its merits. My major complaint against the tax which exists today is that it is unfair, and that, surely seems to be the reason which should weigh in his mind when considering the income which the tax as it stands at present brings into the Exchequer.

The tax is inequitable and weighs most heavily on those people who are not in a position to buy a new car. In fact, the majority of those who today are running pre-1947 cars are not, as some people may imagine, the decayed aristocracy driving about in decrepit Rolls Royces. The truth is that such cars belong for the most part to people who are unable, for one reason or another, to purchase new cars. Therefore, the incidence of taxation weighs far more grievously on them than on those who since 1947 have been able to obtain new cars.

I know that my right hon. Friend might urge that under present conditions he needs the money. But I would urge him to consider that in this matter what should weigh with him most is not simple expediency, but equity. Therefore, I hope he will consider the Clause sympathetically and will express an intention, in one way or another, to see that the existing anomaly is dispensed with.

Mr. McAdden

I am sure that hon. Members on this side of the Committee have been very much fortified by the speech of the hon. Member for Coventry. North (Mr. Edelman), and are delighted to know that there are today hon. Members opposite who feel, as they did 12 months ago, and even 12 months before that, that this is an unfair tax, and that the remedy we are proposing is a just and equitable one. I am sure I speak for all hon. Members on this side when I say that I hope this sense of unfairness will not only weigh with the Chancellor, but with those who have spoken about it, and that should it come to a vote they will translate their sense of fairness and justice into action in the Division Lobby.

I must, of course, declare my interest in this matter, and it is that I am the part owner of a 1937 Austin Eight. I can assure the Committee that, therefore, I do very clearly understand what would be the effect of the Clause upon the owner or part-owner of a car of ancient vintage.

All of us recognise that the maintenance costs and costs of repairs of cars which are badly worn out because of the disgraceful condition of the roads today inevitably mean heavier expense for the owners or part-owners of these cars than for those who have been fortunate enough to get more modern cars. I believe that there is a general feeling on both sides of the Committee that, although this matter has been allowed to go uncorrected upon previous occasions, on this occasion the Chancellor will see his way clear to do what all sides of the Committee agree is the just and right and proper thing to do—that is to say, to ensure that those who are not in a position to get modern cars have the same measure of assistance as those who are. This new and equitable Clause would provide that assistance, and it represents the minimum of justice that the Chancellor ought to be able to do.

Dr. King

I shall not detain the Committee more than a minute in supporting this new Clause, the argument for which has been exceedingly well put by the hon. Gentleman the Member for Chichester (Mr. Joynson-Hicks). I would make a point that has not yet been made. When we argued this case last year the Chancellor stated that the justification for imposing the old horse-power rate of tax on old cars was that they had not carried the very high Purchase Tax which new cars carried.

I suggest to the Chancellor that most of the old cars today are secondhand in the sense that they have been bought and sold in the market, and generally the new prices which they fetch are prices which are high—unduly high—because of the very Purchase Tax which is imposed on new cars. The people who pay high prices for secondhand cars ought, in equity and in justice, to have the benefit of the new tax rate. I do urge the Chancellor to accept this new Clause.

Mr. F. P. Crowder (Ruislip—Northwood)

I seek to intervene only for a few minutes to put forward a special plea for the returned ex-Service man from overseas, who, when he came back from the war, set up a business of his own; whose capital necessarily, after six or seven years in the Service, was short; who was unable to buy a new car secondhand because that meant an outlay of capital of some £600 or £700; and who, therefore, had to go to the bottom of the secondhand market, which inevitably meant buying a car of 22 horse-power or 30 horse-power for some £300, a great deal of which has had to be paid on the hire purchase system.

Not only does he have to bear in his small business all the extensive repairs thereto, but he also has to pay a tax which is something like £30 a year. Of course, that falls very heavily upon the small man, and it is rather galling for him to meet a rich man who, perhaps, was not serving during the war, who has a Rolls Bentley and a Rolls Royce and an expensive new station waggon—the total horsepower of those three vehicles being some 90 horse-power—and who is paying exactly the same car tax as the man who is paying £30 on his 22 horse-power car. Hon. Gentlemen opposite have always supported the small man—[HON. MEMBERS: "No."] Well, they always suggest that they support the small man, and they have an opportunity of doing so tonight.

The 10 horse-power tax was introduced to encourage our motor car manufacturers to produce larger cars. The only thing to discourage them from doing that before the war was the 25s. per horse-power tax. Another disadvantage to a large horse-power car is the higher petrol consumption, but now that the cost of petrol has leapt up this tax is defeating its own ends. In all the circumstances, I ask the Chancellor to consider this solution to the problem, and to have a ceiling tax, if he thinks fit, of, say, £20 on old cars, to level matters out so that there is some equity. If this tax remains, poor people with no capital who are buying cars on the hire-purchase system are hit all along the line; they are hit on the cost of petrol, on the tax and on the repairs. They deserve some equity, and I ask the Chancellor to take action.

Mr. Gaitskell

The hon. Member for Chichester (Mr. Joynson-Hicks) said, in moving this new Clause, that I was pretty familiar with the arguments already. I think that goes for every hon. Member, because this is the third year in succession that we have discussed this matter. If I remember rightly, there is one difference between the proposal this year and the previous proposals. On this occasion it is not proposed to apply a simple flat-rate tax to every car; in other words, simply to extend the £10 tax to every pre-war car.

This new Clause introduces a differentiation between cars of seven horsepower and under and those above. I am a little surprised at this change, because it seems to run contrary to the general principle, which I thought was approved on all sides of the Committee, of encouraging manufacturers to produce larger cars, or if not larger cars at any rate cars suitable for the export markets, by having a single tax.

Mr. Joynson-Hicks

With great respect to the right hon. Gentleman, I think he is in error in his belief, because if we had at any time moved a new Clause to that effect, it would have been out of order because it would have meant imposing an additional tax. I think that all the previous suggestions have been on these lines.

Mr. David Renton (Huntingdon)

I can assure the right hon. Gentleman that the new Clause we have put down this year is the same as the one we put down last year, because I have a copy of last year's in my hand.

Mr. Gaitskell

I have not, I admit, looked up the Clause proposed last year. What has been put to me several times in Questions, and also advocated in speeches during the Budget debate, is that there should be a simple extension of the single tax to pre-war cars. That is an important point, because the distinction introduced in this Clause is contrary to the idea which my right hon. Friend the present Minister of Local Government and Planning had when he introduced the £10 tax for new cars. I think that that is one of the objections to this Clause.

Also, the Clause would, as the hon. Member for Chichester rightly guessed, cost us £6 million. I say at once that I cannot accept the argument that he put forward, that our achieving in Revenue £5½ million more on the Petrol Tax than we had expected is relevant to the question of this year's expenditure. He knows quite well that it has nothing to do with it. As for the argument that more cars would come out of the barns and backyards if we reduced the tax in this way on the pre-1947-cars, I am bound to say that I look upon that with a very sceptical eye indeed. I think that is the kind of argument that is very likely to be put up by those concerned, but I see no evidence to believe that we should in this way make up for the loss of Revenue. If the running costs of the older cars are so high, it seems most unlikely that a relatively small change—[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh!"]—it is a relatively small change on the majority of the cars—would be likely to have much influence on their decision whether to bring their cars out or not.

9.30 p.m.

The question is really: Who benefits from these proposals, and is this new Clause justifiable when considered against the general background of the Budget and all the other claims that are made upon us? The answer, of course, is that primarily it will be the owners of the larger horse-power pre-war cars who will benefit, although there will be some who will benefit from this proposed new Clause who have very small cars, both old and new, the major part of any benefit will undoubtedly go to the owners of the larger pre-war cars.

I cannot agree that they can be described as the poorer motorists. I see no evidence for that suggestion whatever. I know very few poor motorists who own large 20 horse-power and 30 horse-power pre-war cars. [HON. MEMBERS: "Oh!"] Hon. Members may think that they are poor by some standards of their own, but they are not poor in relation to the general body of taxpayers, and that is what I have to consider.

When we hear pleas, which I can well understand, of those who have to buy secondhand cars and the difficulty they have, we must not overlook the fact that the great benefit of this new Clause goes not to those who are thinking of buying cars but to all the present owners of these cars, the vast majority of whom have been owners of these cars for some years and bought them at much lower prices and have had a very substantial capital gain as a result of the rise in the price of secondhand cars. [HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."] That is perfectly true. It is no good hon. Members saying, "Look at the poor ex-Service man who has to pay such a high price for his secondhand car" without remembering that someone has got the benefit of the high price of secondhand cars.

Mr. Joynson-Hicks

How does the right hon. Gentleman contend that they are having a capital gain if they have to keep their old cars and cannot afford to buy new ones?

Mr. Gaitskell

They have had a capital gain as a result of the rise in price of secondhand cars. A large number of people do in fact obtain gains on that account. One cannot say that secondhand cars have gone up in value without indicating that somebody or other has benefited by it. Someone bought it and someone sold it.

This, of course, is something which we would quite like to do. We recognise that there is some anomaly here, but I do not think and I cannot accept that it is a serious case of hardship. None of the owners of these pre-1947 cars have suffered anything except in comparison with people who have bought new cars and who pay the £10 tax, but I suggest that they are not worse off than before and, as I have indicated, some are very much better off. We have to contrast their position with the many other claimants to the £6 million, if there is £6 million going. I am bound to tell the Committee that in my judgment there are many prior claimants to this money who are far more in need of it than the owners of fairly old and fairly large pre-war high power cars, and, therefore, I must ask the Committee to reject the Clause.

Sir Arthur Salter (Ormskirk)

I rise for a moment to interject into this debate a consideration which seems not to have been mentioned or at least to have had very little attention either in the debate here or in the debates outside this Chamber. I am not going to say a word about the hardships or the anomalies or the effect upon the individual who happens to own a old car. My hon. Friends and, indeed, Members opposite have developed those arguments and, of course, they are quite familiar ones.

I want to suggest to the Chancellor of the Exchequer that perhaps he is getting no national advantage at all to set against these anomalies and injustices. I want to relate this to what I understand to be the basic principle of the Chancellor's Budget. The Chancellor has based his Budget, as have his predecessors in recent years, on the principle of obtaining an excess of of Revenue over expenditure sufficient to do something as a counter-inflationary force.

The effect of this differentiation in taxation on the older car is, I suggest, probably inflationary. I agree that to the extent to which the Chancellor gets his Revenue—though of course the net Revenue may be reduced by the considerations mentioned by my hon. Friends—he is withdrawing purchasing power and this is counter-inflationary. But undoubtedly a considerable number of cars, which would otherwise have been in use, will be withheld from use, and year by year as the individual owner of an aged car looks at his increasing expenses, he will be induced, by the addition of this extra tax, to scrap his car or lay it up prematurely a year or two before the time.

The Chancellor can deal with inflation either by effecting the supply side of the equation or the demand side. I suggest that the extent to which cars are withheld from use or prematurely scrapped—not because they are not worth running on their intrinsic merits, but because there is added to the cost this differentiating tax—the Chancellor is doing what is equivalent to a reduction in production. Of course, no one can calculate exactly what is the effect of this tax either in leaving cars unused or by inducing owners to scrap them prematurely. I cannot but believe that the net effect of that on the supply side will be greater than the counter-inflationary effect of the Chancellor's £6 million.

I am not going to say a word about hardships. Indeed, I happen to be the owner of an old car, and because of that I would not argue on that ground. I am presenting an economic argument, and I am relating it to the Revenue in a Budget that is based on the principle, not merely of covering expenditure with Revenue, but of securing an excess of Revenue over expenditure to meet inflation. My suggestion is that the net effect of this is slightly inflationary, and, therefore, there is no net national advantage at all to set against the personal injustices and anomalies.

Mr. Renton

It is a pity that the brief to which the Chancellor was speaking when he replied just now to my hon. Friend the Member for Chichester (Mr. Joynson-Hicks) was prepared before the speech of my hon. Friend was made. It is a pity he read from that brief instead of answering my hon. Friend's arguments. I am particularly sorry that that was so, because the year before last, when the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Colne Valley (Mr. Glenvil Hall) was winding up a similar debate, he gave an undertaking that he would have the figure which he then gave—it was £5¾ million—very carefully examined to see whether it was accurate and whether it was a net loss to the Treasury. It seems to me that in the past two years Treasury thinking has not moved very far on this subject.

I would ask the right hon. Gentleman not to close this matter tonight by continuing to disregard the various amounts which, as my hon. Friend for Chichester has pointed out, should be set off against the gross immediate loss which the Exchequer expects to have as a result of this Clause. Surely the Chancellor ought to be more alive than he apparently is to his own self interest.

I do beseech him to consider the possibility that we are doing him a very great kindness by moving this new Clause and enabling him to scrape a few more £s from his fellow citizens rather more honestly than he generally does. I hope that the Chancellor will get up and say that his mind is not closed on this matter and that he is prepared to consider it further between now and the Report stage. There are many hon. Members who will be saved a great deal of embarrassment if he makes such a statement, and he should take advantage of this opportunity.

Mr. Michael Astor (Surrey, East)

I agree with one thing the Chancellor said, and that is that nearly all the arguments which can be advanced in favour of this Clause are already well known to the Committee. I have one suggestion which might help him to accept the substance of the new Clause. The Chancellor told the Committee that he cannot afford the loss of the £6 million Revenue, quite apart from anything else. Let the Committee accept that argument for one moment. The Chancellor is at the moment ill-at-ease—or he should be—because he recognises that there are gross injustices in the 1947 proposal.

A means test, which is not exactly what I am going to propose, is unpopular politically and usually undesirable, but the sort of man we are trying to help is not the man who turns over old cars every six months and makes a profit on them. It is the man who has been in possession of an old car for some time and has been unable to acquire a new one, either through lack of money or opportunity. Is it not possible to meet the claims of these people who have bought old cars since 1947, if this is the only car they have?

At this point it is necessary for the Chancellor to accept the fact that there are people who need a large car, either for family or business reasons. I believe my suggestion would be a way of meeting the difficulty, and that it would certainly not cost the Chancellor £6 million. The present position is now unjust and unsatisfactory and the Chancellor has made no attempt to mitigate it. The argument I have advanced is in the nature of a compromise. Will the right hon. Gentleman tell us whether the suggestion would be workable, and then perhaps we could discuss its merits in more detail?

9.45 p.m.

Mr. Houghton

I rise in the hope that I can help to shorten the discussion. Cannot both sides of the Committee agree that there is nothing to be said against the Clause except the cost? If we acknowledge that we are getting down to the core of the problem. In drawing up his Budget proposals my right hon. Friend had to weigh in his mind the relative strength of many claims for tax reliefs which he could give in a Budget which had to levy additional taxation to pay for our re-armament, and he had to discriminate between one possible tax relief and another.

It is not now reasonable for the Committee to ask the Chancellor at this stage of the Finance Bill to accept a Clause which will cost the Exchequer between £5,500,000 and £6 million this year, as he is no longer in a position to propose an additional tax burden to compensate for that loss of revenue. My right hon. Friend might have considered smoothing out the anomaly by imposing an additional 1d. a gallon on petrol, for instance, but as he did not decide to do that, he is now no longer free to do it because we have passed the Clause dealing with the Petrol Duty.

All we are really dealing with is whether it is reasonable to ask the Chancellor to make this concession now in the circumstances of the present budgetary situation. If it is not reasonable—I am sure the Committee will agree that it is not—there is no point in pursuing the merits of the Clause. We accept that there is no merit in this continued anomaly. Perhaps the Chancellor failed to appreciate in his reply the passion of the British taxpayer for equity; I think the Chancellor has had long enough contact with the Civil Service to know that the comparative grievance is the biggest grievance of all, and that it is no comfort to the owner of an old car to tell him that he is not paying any more tax than he was paying before and all that has happened is that somebody else is paying less; but seeing that I have carried hon. and right hon. Gentlemen with me so far, I respectfully suggest that they accept the Chancellor's reply.

Mr. Lionel Heald (Chertsey)

During the last few minutes the Chancellor of the Exchequer must have been saying, "Save us from our friends!" He has been given a defence which he himself did not try to put forward, and he may be thankful for it.

I want to make a strong protest against the extraordinarily cynical and airy attitude with which the proposal has been brushed aside by the Chancellor. It provides an excellent test of the Government's attitude towards the country at the present time. There is not the slightest sign of realisation that this affects him. We do not quite know the figures, but there are certainly well over one million cars representing at least two people each who probably have notes.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer brushes those two million people aside just like that. It is typical of the attitude of the gentleman in Whitehall who knows best. He has no conception of what strong feeling there is all over the country on this subject. In my constituency I have been astonished to find the number of people who have written and spoke and telephoned to me about it. And they are not all blood-sucking capitalists.

One has only to go outside this place and look at the cars, as we did the other night, to see over 100 belonging to Government supporters. Of course, some of them pay only £10, but there are some Members who have a 14 horse-power Morris. What did the Chancellor say? That this might benefit a few people with old high horse-power cars. Does not a man with a 14 horse-power Morris matter to anybody? He pays £11 more than we say he ought to pay. We say that this is an example, a remnant, of the old bogus class warfare of Socialism. The Chancellor

does not even yet realise that there are millions of people, on whose votes he depends, who own these cars and who are hit by this tax. I hope they will take the opportunity of hitting him.

Mr. R. J. Taylor (Lord Commissioner of the Treasury) rose in his place and claimed to move, "That the Question be now put."

Question put, "That the Question be now put."

The Committee divided: Ayes, 285; Noes, 272.

Division No. 137.] AYES [9.55 p.m.
Acland, Sir Richard Darling, George (Hillsborough) Hobson, G. R.
Adams, Richard Davies, A. Edward (Stoke, N.) Helman, P.
Albu, A. H. Davies, Harold (Leek) Holmes, Horace (Hemsworth)
Allen, Arthur (Bosworth) Davies, Stephen (Merthyr) Houghton, D.
Allen, Scholefield (Crewe) de Freitas, Geoffrey Hoy, J.
Anderson, Alexander (Motherwell) Deer, G. Hubbard, I.
Anderson, Frank (Whitehaven) Delargy, H. J. Hudson James (Ealing, N.)
Attlee, Rt. Hon. C. R. Dodds, N. N. Hughes, Emrys (S. Ayrshire)
Awbery, S. S. Donnelly, D. Hughes, Moelwyn (Islington, N.)
Ayles, W. H. Driberg, T. E. N. Hynd, H. (Accrington)
Bacon, Miss Alick Dugdale, Rt. Hon. J. (W. Bromwich) Hynd, J. B. (Attercliffe)
Baird, J. Dye, S. Irvine, A. J. (Edge Hill)
Balfour, A. Ede, Rt. Hon. J. C. Irving, W. J. (Wood Green)
Barnes, Rt. Hon. A. J. Edelman, M. Isaacs, Rt. Hon. G. A.
Bartley, P. Edwards, John (Brighouse) Janner, B.
Bellenger, Rt. Hon. F. J. Edwards, Rt. Hon. Ness (Caerphilly) Jay, D. P. T.
Benn, Wedgwood Edwards, W. J. (Stepney) Jeger, George (Goole)
Benson, G. Evans, Albert (Islington, S. W.) Jeger, Dr. Santo (St Pancras, S.)
Beswick, F. Evans, Edward (Lowestoft) Jenkins, R. H.
Bevan, Rt. Hon. A. (Ebbw Vale) Evans, Stanley (Wednesbury) Johnson, James (Rugby)
Bing, G. H. C. Ewart, R. Johnston, Douglas (Paisley)
Blenkinsop, A. Fernyhough, E. Jones, David (Hartlepool)
Blyton, W. R. Field, Capt. W. J. Jones, Frederick Elwyn (W. Ham, S.)
Boardman, H. Finch, H. J. Jones, Jack (Rotherham)
Booth, A. Fletcher, Eric (Islington, E.) Jones, William Elwyn (Conway)
Bottomley, A. G. Follick, M. Keenan, W.
Bowden, H. W. Foot, M. M. Kenyon, C.
Bowles, F. G. (Nuneaton) Forman, J. C. Key, Rt. Hon. C. W.
Braddock, Mrs. Elizabeth Fraser, Thomas (Hamilton) King, Dr H. M.
Brook, Dryden (Halifax) Freeman, John (Watford) Kinghorn, Sqn. Ldr. E.
Brooks, T. J. (Normanton) Freeman, Peter (Newport) Kinley, J.
Broughton, Dr. A. D. D. Gaitskell, Rt. Hon. H. T. N. Kirkwood, Rt. Hon. D.
Brown, Rt. Hon. George (Belper) Ganley, Mrs. C. S. Lee, Frederick (Newton)
Brown, Thomas (Ince) George, Lady Megan Lloyd Lever, Harold (Cheetham)
Burke, W. A. Gibson, C. W. Lever, Leslie (Ardwick)
Burton, Miss E. Gilzean, A. Lewis, Arthur (West Ham, N.)
Butler, Herbert (Hackney, S.) Glanville, James (Consett) Lewis, John (Bolton, W.)
Callaghan, L. J. Gooch, E. G. Lindgren, G. S.
Carmichael, J. Gordon-Walker, Rt. Hon. P. C. Lipton, Lt.-Col. M.
Castle, Mrs. B. A. Granville, Edgar (Eye) Logan, D. G.
Champion, A. J. Greenwood, Anthony (Rossendale) Longden Fred (Small Heath)
Chetwynd, G. R. Greenwood, Rt. Hn. Arthur (Wakefield) McAllister, G.
Clunie, J. Grey, C. F. McGhee, H. G.
Cocks, F. S. Griffiths, David (Rother Valley) McGovern, J.
Coldrick, W. Griffiths, Rt. Hon. James (Llanelly) McInnes, J.
Collick, P. Griffiths, William (Exchange) Mack, J. D.
Collindridge, F. Gunter, R. J. McKay, John (Wallsend)
Cook, T. F. Hale, Joseph (Rochdale) Mackay, R. W. G. (Reading, N.)
Cooper, Geoffrey (Middlesbrough, W.) Hale, Leslie (Oldham, W.) McLeavy, F.
Cooper, John (Deptford) Hall, John (Gateshead W.) MacMillan, Malcolm (Western Isles)
Corbet, Mrs. Freda (Peckham) Hamilton, W. W. MacPherson, Malcolm (Stirling)
Cove, W. G. Hannan, W. Mainwaring, W. H.
Craddock, George (Bradford, S.) Hardy, E. A. Mallalieu, J. P. W. (Huddersfield, E.)
Crawley, A. Hargreaves, A. Mann, Mrs. Jean
Crosland, C. A. R. Hastings, S. Manuel, A. C.
Crossman, R. H. S Hayman, F. H. Marquand, Rt. Hon. H. A.
Cullen, Mrs. A. Henderson, Rt. Hn. Arthur (Tipton) Mathers, Rt. Hon. G.
Daines, P. Herbison, Miss M. Mellish, R. J.
Dalton, Rt. Hon. H. Hewitson, Capt. M. Messer, F.
Middleton, Mrs. L. Reid, William (Camlachie) Timmons, J.
Mikardo, Ian. Rhodes, H. Tomney, F.
Mitchison, G. R. Richards, R. Turner-Samuels, M.
Moeran, E. W. Robens, Rt. Hon. A. Ungoed-Thomas, Sir Lynn
Monslow, W. Roberts, Emrys (Merioneth) Vernon, W. F.
Moody, A. S. Roberts, Goronwy (Caernarvonshire) Viant, S. P.
Morgan, Dr. H. B. Robertson, J. J. (Berwick) Wallace, H. W.
Morley, R. Robinson, Kenneth (St. Pancras, N.) Watkins, T. E.
Morris, Percy (Swansea, W.) Rogers, George (Kensington, N.) Webb, Rt. Hon. M. (Bradford, C.)
Mort, D. L. Ross, William Weitzman, D.
Moyle, A. Royle, C. Wells, Percy (Faversham)
Mulley, F. W. Snackleton, E. A. A. Wells, William (Walsall)
Murray, J. D. Shawcross, Rt. Hon. Sir Hartley West, D. G.
Nally, W. Shurmer, P. L. E. Wheatley, Rt. Hon. John (Edinb'gh E.)
Neal, Harold (Bolsover) Silverman, Julius (Erdington) White, Mrs. Eirene (E. Flint)
Noel-Baker, Rt. Hon. P. J. Silverman, Sydney (Nelson) White, Henry (Derbyshire, N.E.)
O'Brien, T. Simmons, C. J. Whiteley, Rt. Hon. W.
Oldfield, W. H. Slater, J. Wilcock, Group Capt. C. A. B.
Oliver, G. H. Smith, Ellis (Stoke, S.) Wilkes, L.
Orbach, M. Smith, Norman (Nottingham, s.) Wilkins, W. A.
Padley, W. E. Sorensen, R. W. Willey, Frederick (Sunderland)
Paling, Rt. Hon. Wilfred (Dearne V'lly) Soskice, Rt. Hon. Sir Frank Willey, Octavius (Cleveland)
Paling, Will T. (Dewsbury) Stewart, Michael (Fulham, E.) Williams, David (Neath)
Pannell, T. C. Stakes, Rt. Hon. R. R. Williams, Rev. Llywelyn (Abertillery)
Pargiter, G. A. Strachey, Rt. Hon. J. Williams, Ronald (Wigan)
Paton, J. Strauss, Rt. Hon. George (Vauxhall) Williams, Rt. Hon. Thomas (Don V'lly)
Peart, T. F. Stross, Dr. Barnett Williams, W. T. (Hammersmith, S.)
Popplewell, E. Summerskill, Rt. Hon. Edith Winterbottom, Ian (Nottingham, C.)
Porter, G. Sylvester, G. O. Winterbottom, Richard (Brightside)
Price, Philips (Gloucestershire, W.) Taylor, Bernard (Mansfield) Wise, F. J.
Proctor, W. T. Taylor, Robert (Morpeth) Woods, Rev. G. S.
Pryde, D. J. Thomas, David (Aberdare) Yates, V. F.
Pursey, Cmdr. H. Thomas, George (Cardiff) Younger, Rt. Hon. K.
Rankin, J. Thomas, Iorwerth (Rhondda, W.)
Rees, Mrs. D. Thomas, Ivor Owen (Wrekin) TELLERS FOR THE AYES:
Reeves, J. Thorneycroft, Harry (Clayton) Mr. Pearson and Mr. Sparks.
Reid, Thomas (Swindon) Thurtle, Ernest
Aitken, W. T. Clarke, Brig. Terence (Portsmouth, W.) Gales, Maj. E. E.
Alport, C. J. M. Clyde, J. L. Gomme-Duncan, Col. A.
Amery, Julian (Preston, N.) Colegate, A. Gridley, Sir Arnold
Amory, Heathcoat (Tiverton) Cooper-Key, E. M. Grimond, J.
Arbuthnot, John Corbett, Lt.-Col. Uvedale (Ludlow) Grimston, Hon. John (St. Albans)
Ashton, H. (Chelmsford) Craddock, Beresford (Spelthorne) Grimston, Robert (Westbury)
Assheton, Rt. Hon. R. (Blackburn, W.) Cranborne, Viscount Harden, J. R. E.
Astor, Hon. M. L. Crookshank, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. F. C. Hare, Hon. J. H. (Woodbridge)
Baker, P. A. D. Crosthwaite-Eyre, Col. O. E. Harris, Frederic (Croydon, N.)
Baldock, Lt.-Cmdr. J. M. Crouch, R. F. Harris, Reader (Heston)
Baldwin, A. E. Crowder, Capt. John (Finchley) Harvey, Air Cdrs. A. V. (Macclesfield)
Banks, Col. C. Crowder, Petre (Ruislip—Northwood) Harvey, Ian (Harrow, E.)
Baxter, A. B. Cundiff, F. W. Harvie-Watt, Sir George
Beamish, Maj. Tufton Cuthbert, W. N. Hay, John
Bell, R. M. Darling, Sir William (Edinburgh. S.) Head, Brig. A. H.
Bennett, Dr. Reginald (Gosport) Davidson, Viscountess Headlam, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir Cuthbers
Bennett, William (Woodside) Davies, Nigel (Epping) Heald, Lionel
Bevins, J. R. (Liverpool, Toxteth) de Chair, Somerset Heath, Edward
Birch, Nigel De la Bère, R. Henderson, John (Cathcart)
Bishop, F. P. Deedes, W. F. Hicks-Beach, Maj. W. W.
Black, C. W. Digby, S. Wingfield Higgs, J. M. C.
Boles, Lt.-Col. D. C. (Wells) Dodds-Parker, A. D. Hill, Dr. Charles (Luton)
Boothby, R. Donner, P. W. Hill, Mrs. E. (Wythenshawe)
Bossom, A. C. Douglas-Hamilton, Lord Malcolm Hinchingbrooke, Viscount
Boyd-Carpenter, J. A. Drayson, G. B. Hirst, Geoffrey
Boyle, Sir Edward Drewe, C. Hollis, M. C.
Bracken, Rt. Hon. B. Dugdale, Maj. Sir. T. (Richmond) Hope, Lord John
Braine, B. R. Duncan, Capt. J. A. L. Hopkinson, Henry
Braithwaite, Sir Albert (Harrow, W.) Eccles, D. M. Hornsby-Smith, Miss P.
Braithwaite, Lt.-Cr. G. (Bristol, N. W.) Eden, Rt. Hon. A. Horsbrugh, Rt. Hon. Florence
Bromley-Davenport, Lt.-Col. W. Elliot, Rt. Hon. W. E. Howard, Gerald (Cambridgeshire)
Brooke, Henry (Hampstead) Erroll, F. J. Howard, Greville (St. Ives)
Browne, Jack (Govan) Fisher, Nigel Hudson, Sir Austin (Lewisham, N.)
Buchan-Hepburn, P. G. T. Fort, R. Hudson, Rt. Hon. Robert (Southport)
Bullus, Wing Commander E. E. Foster, John Hudson, W. R. A. (Hull, N.)
Burden, F. A. Fraser, Hon. Hugh (Stone) Hurd, A. R.
Butcher, H. W. Fraser, Sir Ian (Morecambe & Lonsdale) Hutchinson, Geoffrey (Ilford, N.)
Butler, Rt. Hn. R. A. (S'ffr'n W'ld'n) Fyfe, Rt. Hon. Sir David Maxwell Hutchison, Lt.-Com. Clark (E'b'rgh W.)
Carr, Robert (Mitcham) Gage, C. H. Hutchison, Col. James (Glasgow)
Carson, Hon. E. Galbraith, Cmdr. T. D. (Pollok) Hyde, Lt.-Col. H. M.
Channon, H. Galbraith, T. G. D. (Hillhead) Hylton-Foster, H. B.
Churchill, Rt. Hon. W. S. Gammans, L. D. Jeffreys, General Sir George
Clarke, Col. Ralph (East Grinstead) Garner-Evans, E. H. (Denbigh) Jennings, R.
Johnson, Howard (Kemptown) Nabarro, G. Spens, Sir Patrick (Kensington, S.)
Jones, A. (Hall Green) Nicholls, Harmar Stanley, Capt. Hon. Richard (N. Fylde)
Kaberry, D. Nicholson, G. Stevens, G. P.
Kerr, H. W. (Cambridge) Nield, Basil (Chester) Steward, W. A. (Woolwich, W.)
Kingsmill, Lt.-Col. W. H Noble, Cmdr. A. H. P. Stewart, Henderson (Fife, E.)
Lambert, Hon. G. Nugent, G. R. H. Stoddart-Scott, Col. M.
Lancaster, Col. C. G Nutting, Anthony Storey, S.
Langford-Holt, J. Oakshott, H. D. Strauss, Henry (Norwich, S.)
Law, Rt. Hon. R. K. Odey, G. W. Stuart, Rt. Hon. James (Moray)
Leather, E. H. C. O'Neill, Rt. Hon. Sir Hugh Studholme, H. G.
Legge-Bourke, Maj. E. A. H. Ormsby-Gore, Hon. W. D. Summers, G. S.
Lennox-Boyd, A. T. Orr, Capt. L. P. S. Sutcliffe, H.
Lindsay, Martin Orr-Ewing, Charles Ian (Hendon, N.) Taylor, Charles (Eastbourne)
Linstead, H. N. Orr-Ewing, Ian L. (Weston-super-Mare) Taylor, William (Bradford, N.)
Lloyd, Rt. Hon. G. (King's Norton) Osborne, C. Teeling, W.
Lloyd, Selwyn (Wirral) Peake, Rt. Hon. O Teevan, T. L.
Lockwood, Lt.-Col. J. C. Perkins, W. R. D. Thomas, J. P. L. (Hereford)
Longden, Gilbert (Herts, S. W.) Peto, Brig. C. H. M Thompson, Kenneth Push (Walton)
Low, A. R. W. Pitman, I. J. Thompson, Lt.-Cmdr. R. (Croydon, W.)
Lucas, Sir Jocelyn (Portsmouth, S.) Powell, J. Enoch Thorneycroft, Peter (Monmouth)
Lucas, P. B. (Brentford) Price, Henry (Lewisham, W.) Thorp, Brig. R. A. F.
Lucas-Tooth, Sir Hugh Prior-Palmer, Brig. O. Tilney, John
Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. O. Profumo, J. D. Turner, H. F. L.
McAdden, S. J. Raikes, H. V. Turton, R. H.
McCorquodale, Rt. Hon. M. S. Rayner, Brig. R. Tweedsmuir, Lady
Macdonald, Sir Peter (I. of Wight) Redmayne, M. Vane, W. M. F.
Mackeson, Brig. H. R. Remnant, Hon. P. Vaughan-Morgan, J. K.
McKibbin, A. Renton, D. L. M. Wakefield, Edward (Derbyshire, W.)
McKie, J. H. (Galloway) Roberts, Maj. Peter (Heeley) Wakefield, Sir Wavell (Marylebone)
Maclay, Hon. John Robertson, Sir David (Caithness) Walker-Smith, D. C.
Maclean, Fitzroy Robinson, Roland (Blackpool, S.) Ward, Hon. George (Worcester)
MacLeod, Iain (Enfield, W.) Robson-Brown, W. Ward, Miss I. (Tynemouth)
MacLeod, John (Ross and Cromarty) Rodgers, John (Sevenoaks) Waterhouse, Capt. Rt. Hon. C.
Macmillan, Rt. Hon. Harold (Bromley) Roper, Sir Harold Watkinson, H.
Maitland, Cmdr. J. W. Ropner, Col. L. Webbe, Sir H. (London & Westminster)
Manningham-Buller, R. E. Russell, R. S. Wheatley, Maj. M. J. (Poole)
Marlowe, A. A. H. Ryder, Capt. R. E. D. White, Baker (Canterbury)
Marshall, Douglas (Bodmin) Salter, Rt. Hon. Sir Arthur. Williams, Charles (Torquay)
Maude, Angus (Ealing, S.) Sandys, Rt. Hon. D. Williams, Gerald (Tonbridge)
Maude, John (Exeter) Savory, Prof. D. L. Williams, Sir Herbert (Croydon, E.)
Maudling, R. Scott, Donald Wills, G.
Medlicott, Brig. F. Shepherd, William Wilson, Geoffrey (Truro)
Mellor, Sir John Smiles, Lt.-Col. Sir Walter Winterton, Rt. Hon. Earl
Molson, A. H. E. Smithers, Peter (Winchester) Wood, Hon. R.
Moore, Lt.-Col. Sir Thomas Smyth, Brig. J. G. (Norwood) York, C.
Morrison, John (Salisbury) Snadden, W. McN.
Morrison, Rt. Hon. W. S. (Cirencester) Soames, Capt. C. TELLERS FOR THE NOES:
Mott-Radclyffe, C. E. Spearman, A. C. M. Major Conant and Mr. Vosper.
Spence, H. R. (Aberdeenshire, W.)

Question put accordingly, "That the Clause be read a Second time."

The Committee divided: Ayes, 275: Noes, 281.

Division No. 138.] AYES [10.5 p.m.
Aitken, W. T. Braine, B. R. Crowder, Capt. John (Finchley)
Alport, C. J. M. Braithwaite, Sir Albert (Harrow, W.) Crowder, Petre (Ruislip—Northwood)
Amery, Julian (Preston, N.) Braithwaite, Lt.-Cr. G. (Bristol, N. W.) Cundiff, F. W.
Amory, Heathcoat (Tiverton) Bromley-Davenport, Lt.-Col. W. Cuthbert, W. N.
Arbuthnot, John Brooke, Henry (Hampstead) Darling, Sir William (Edinburgh, S.)
Ashton, H. (Chelmsford) Browne, Jack (Govan) Davidson, Viscountess
Assheton, Rt. Hon. R. (Blackburn, W.) Buchan-Hepburn, P. G. T. Davies, Nigel (Epping)
Astor, Hon. M. L. Bullus, Wing Commander E. E. de Chair, Somerset
Baker, P. A. D. Burden, F. A. De la Bère, R.
Baldock, Lt.-Cmdr. J. M. Butcher, H. W. Deedes, W. F.
Baldwin, A. E. Butler, Rt. Hn. R. A. (S'ffr'n W'ld'n) Digby, S. Wingfield
Banks, Col. C. Carr, Robert (Mitcham) Dodds-Parker, A. D.
Baxter, A. B. Carson, Hon. E. Donner, P. W.
Beamish, Maj. Tufton Channon, H. Douglas-Hamilton, Lord Malcolm
Bell, R. M. Churchill, Rt. Hon. W. S. Drayson, G. B.
Bennett, Dr. Reginald (Gosport) Clarke, Col. Ralph (East Grinstead) Drewe, C.
Bennett, William (Woodside) Clarke, Brig. Terence (Portsmouth, W.) Dugdale, Maj. Sir T. (Richmond)
Bevins, J. R. (Liverpool, Toxteth) Clyde, J. L. Duncan, Capt. J. A. L.
Birch, Nigel Colegate, A. Eccles, D. M.
Bishop, F. P. Conant, Maj. R. J. E. Eden, Rt. Hon. A.
Black, C. W. Cooper-Key, E. M. Elliot, Rt. Hon. W. E.
Boles, Lt.-Col. D. C. (Wells) Corbett. Lt.-Col. Uvedale (Ludlow) Erroll, F. J.
Boothby, R. Craddock, Beresford (Spelthorne) Fisher, Nigel
Bossom, A. C. Cranborne, Viscount Fort, R.
Boyd-Carpenter, J. A. Crookshank, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. F. C. Foster, John
Boyle, Sir Edward Crosthwaite-Eyre, Col, O. E. Fraser, Hon. Hugh (Stone)
Bracken, Rt. Hon. B. Crouch, R. F. Fraser, Sir Ian (Morecambe & Lonsdale)
Fyfe, Rt. Hon. Sir David Maxwell Lloyd, Selwyn (Wirral) Rodgers, John (Sevenoaks)
Gage, C. H. Lockwood, Lt.-Col. J. C. Roper, Sir Harold
Galbraith, Cmdr. T. D. (Pollok) Longden, Gilbert (Herts, S. W.) Ropner, Col. L.
Galbraith, T. G. D. (Hillhead) Low, A. R. W. Russell, R. S.
Gammans, L. D. Lucas, Sir Jocelyn (Portsmouth, S.) Ryder, Capt. R. E. D.
Garner-Evans, E. H. (Denbign) Lucas, P. B. (Brentford) Salter, Rt. Hon. Sir Arthur
Gales, Maj. E. E. Lucas-Tooth, Sir Hugh Sandys, Rt. Hon. D.
George, Lady Megan Lloyd Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. O. Savory, Prof. D. L.
Gomme-Duncan, Col. A. McAdden, S. J. Scott, Donald
Granville, Edgar (Eye) McCorquodale, Rt. Hon. M. S. Shepherd, William
Gridley, Sir Arnold Macdonald, Sir Peter (I. of Wight) Smiles, Lt.-Col. Sir Walter
Grimond, J. McKibbin, A. Smithers, Peter (Winchester)
Grimston, Hon. John (St. Albans) McKie, J. H. (Galloway) Smyth, Brig. J. G. (Norwood)
Grimston, Robert (Westbury) Maclay, Hon. John Snadden, W. McN
Harden, J. R. E. Maclean, Fitzroy Soames, Capt. C.
Hare, Hon. J. H. (Woodbridge) MacLeod, Iain (Enfield, W.) Spearman, A. C. M.
Harris, Frederic (Croydon, N.) MacLeod, John (Ross and Cromarty) Spence, H. R. (Aberdeenshire, W.)
Harris, Reader (Heston) Macmillan, Rt. Hon. Harold (Bromley) Spens, Sir Patrick (Kensington, S.)
Harvey, Air Cdre. A. V. (Macclesfield) Maitland, Cmdr. J. W. Stanley, Capt. Hon. Richard (N. Fylde)
Harvey, Ian (Harrow, E.) Manningham-Buller, R. E. Stevens, G. P.
Harvie-Watt, Sir George Marlowe, A. A. H. Steward, W. A. (Woolwich, W.)
Hay, John Marshall, Douglas (Bodmin) Stewart, Henderson (Fife, E.)
Head, Brig. A. H. Maude, Angus (Ealing, S.) Stoddart-Scott, Col. M.
Headlam, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir Cuthbert Maude, John (Exeter) Storey, S.
Heald, Lionel Maudling, R. Strauss, Henry (Norwich, S.)
Heath, Edward Medlicott, Brig. F. Stuart, Rt. Hon. James (Moray)
Henderson, John (Cathcart) Mellor, Sir John Studholme, H. G.
Hicks-Beach, Maj. W. W. Molson, A. H. E. Summers, G. S.
Higgs, J. M. C. Monckton, Sir Walter Sutcliffe, H.
Hill, Dr. Charles (Luton) Moore, Lt.-Col. Sir Thomas Taylor, Charles (Eastbourne)
Hilt, Mrs. E. (Wythenshawe) Morrison, John (Salisbury) Taylor, William (Bradford, N.)
Hinchingbrooke, Viscount Morrison, Rt. Hon. W. S. (Cirencester) Teeling, W.
Hirst, Geoffrey Mott-Radclyffe, C. E. Teevan, T. L.
Hollis, M. C. Nabarro, G. Thomas, J. P. L. (Hereford)
Hope, Lord John Nicholls, Harmar Thompson, Kenneth Pugh (Walton)
Hopkinson, Henry Nicholson, G. Thompson, Lt.-Cmdr. R. (Croydon, W.)
Hornsby-Smith, Miss P. Nield, Basil (Chester) Thorneycroft, Peter (Monmouth)
Horsbrugh, Rt. Hon. Florence Noble, Cmdr. A. H. P. Thorp, Brig. R. A. F.
Howard, Gerald (Cambridgeshire) Nugent, G. R. H. Tilney, John
Howard, Greville (St. Ives) Nutting, Anthony Turner, H. F. L.
Hudson, Sir Austin (Lewisham, N.) Oakshott, H. D. Turton, R. H.
Hudson, Rt. Hon. Robert (Southport) Odey, G. W. Tweedsmuir, Lady
Hudson, W. R. A. (Hull, N.) O'Neill, Rt. Hon. Sir Hugh Vane, W. M. F.
Hurd, A. R. Ormsby-Gore, Hon. W. D. Vaughan-Morgan, J. K.
Hutchinson, Geoffrey (Ilford, N.) Orr, Capt. L. P. S. Vosper, D. F.
Hutchison, Lt.-Com. Clark (E'b'rgh W.) Orr-Ewing, Charles Ian (Hendon, N.) Wakefield, Edward (Derbyshire, W.)
Hutchison, Col. James (Glasgow) Orr-Ewing, Ian L. (Weston-super-Mare) Wakefield, Sir Wavell (Marylebone)
Hyde, Lt.-Col. H. M. Osborne, C. Walker-Smith, D. C.
Hylton-Foster, H. B. Peake, Rt. Hon. O. Ward, Hon. George (Worcester)
Jennings, R. Perkins, W. R. D. Ward, Miss I. (Tynemouth)
Johnson, Howard (Kemptown) Peto, Brig. C. H. M. Waterhouse, Capt. Rt. Hon. C.
Jones, A. (Hall Green) Pitman, I. J. Watkinson, H.
Joynson-Hicks, Hon. L. W. Powell, J. Enoch Webbe, Sir H. (London & Westminster)
Kaberry, D. Price, Henry (Lewisham, W.) White, Baker (Canterbury)
Kerr, H. W. (Cambridge) Prior-Palmer, Brig. O. Williams, Charles (Torquay)
Kingsmill, Lt.-Col. W. H. Profumo, J. D. Williams, Gerald (Tonbridge)
Lambert, Hon. G. Raikes, H. V. Williams, Sir Herbert (Croydon, E.)
Lancaster, Col. C. G. Rayner, Brig. R. Wills, G.
Langford-Holt, J. Redmayne, M. Wilson, Geoffrey (Truro)
Law, Rt. Hon. R. K. Remnant, Hon. P. Winterton, Rt. Hon. Earl
Leather, E. H. C. Renton, D. L. M. Wood, Hon. R.
Legge-Bourke, Maj. E. A. H. Roberts, Emrys (Merioneth) York, C.
Lennox-Boyd, A. T. Roberts, Maj. Peter (Heeley)
Lindsay, Martin Robertson, Sir David (Caithness) TELLERS FOR THE AYES:
Linstead, H. N. Robinson, Roland (Blackpool, S.) Brigadier Mackeson and
Lloyd, Rt. Hon. (King's Norton) Robson-Brown, W. Major Wheatley.
Acland, Sir Richard Benn, Wedgwood Brown, Rt. Hon. George (Belper)
Adams, Richard Benson, G. Brown, Thomas (Ince)
Albu, A. H. Beswick, F. Burke, W. A.
Alien, Arthur (Bosworth) Bevan, Rt. Hon. A. (Ebbw Vale) Burton, Miss E.
Allen, Scholefield (Crewe) Bing, G. H. C. Butler, Herbert (Hackney, S.)
Anderson, Alexander (Motherwell) Blenkinsop, A. Callaghan, L. J.
Anderson, Frank (Whitehaven) Blyton, W. R. Carmichael, J.
Attlee, Rt. Hon. C. R. Boardman, H. Castle, Mrs. B. A.
Awbery, S. S. Booth, A. Champion, A. J.
Ayles, W. H. Bottomley, A. G. Chetwynd, G. R.
Bacon, Miss Alice Bowden, H. W. Clunie, J.
Baird, J. Bowles, F. G. (Nuneaton) Cocks, F. S.
Balfour, A. Braddock, Mrs. Elizabeth Coldrick, W.
Barnes, Rt. Hon. A. J. Brook, Dryden (Halifax) Collick, P.
Bartley, P. Brooks, T. J. (Normanton) Collindridge, F.
Bellenger, Rt. Hon. F. J. Broughton, Dr A. D. D. Cook, T. F.
Cooper, Geoffrey (Middlesbrough, W.) Irvine, A. J. (Edge Hill) Pryde, D. J.
Cooper, John (Deptford) Irving, W. J. (Wood Green) Pursey, Cmdr. H.
Corbet, Mrs. Freda (Peckham) Isaacs, Rt. Hon. G. A. Rankin, J.
Cove, W. G. Janner, B. Reeves, J.
Craddock, George (Bradford, S.) Jay, D. P. T. Reid, Thomas (Swindon)
Crawley, A. Jeger, George (Goole) Reid, William (Camlachie)
Crosland, C. A. R. Jeger, Dr. Santo (St. Pancras, S.) Rhodes, H.
Crossman, R. H. S. Jenkins, R. H. Richards, R.
Cullen, Mrs. A. Johnson, James (Rugby) Robens, Rt. Hon. A.
Daines, P. Johnston, Douglas (Paisley) Roberts, Goronwy (Caernarvonshire)
Dalton, Rt. Hon. H. Jones, David (Hartlepool) Robertson, J. J. (Berwick)
Darling, George (Hillsborough) Jones, Frederick Elwyn (W. Ham, S.) Robinson, Kenneth (St. Pancras, N.)
Davies, A. Edward (Stoke, N.) Jones, Jack (Rotherham) Rogers, George (Kensington, N.)
Davies, Harold (Leek) Jones, William Elwyn (Conway) Ross, William
Davies, Stephen (Merthyr) Keenan, W. Royle, C.
de Freitas, Geoffrey Kenyon, C. Shackleton, E. A. A.
Deer, G. Key, Rt. Hon. C. W. Shawcross, Rt. Ron Sir Hartley
Delargy, H. J. King, Dr. H. M. Shurmer, P. L. E.
Dodds, N. N. Kinghorn, Sqn Ldr. E. Silverman, Julius (Erdington)
Donnelly, D. Kinley, J. Silverman, Sydney (Nelson)
Driberg, T. E. N. Lee, Frederick (Newton) Simmons, C. J.
Dugdale, Rt. Hon. J. (W. Bromwich) Lever, Harold (Cheetham) Slater, J.
Dye, S. Lever, Leslie (Ardwick) Smith, Ellis (Stoke, S.)
Ede, Rt. Hon. J. C. Lewis, Arthur (West Ham, N.) Smith, Norman (Nottingham, S.)
Edelman, M. Lewis, John (Bolton, W.) Sorensen, R. W.
Edwards, John (Brighouse) Lindgren, G. S. Soskice, Rt. Hon. Sir Frank
Edwards, Rt. Hon. Ness (Caerphilly) Lipton, Lt.-Col. M. Stewart, Michael (Fulham, E.)
Edwards, W. J. (Stepney) Logan, D. G. Stokes, Rt. Hon. R. R.
Evans, Albert (Islington, S. W.) Longden, Fred (Small Heath) Strachey, Rt. Hon. J.
Evans, Edward (Lowestoft) McAllister, G. Strauss, Rt. Hon. George (Vauxhall)
Evans, Stanley (Wednesbury) McGhee, H. G. Stross, Dr. Barnett
Ewart, R. McGovern, J. Summerskill, Rt. Hon. Edith
Fernyhough, E. McInnes, J. Sylvester, G. O.
Field, Capt. W. J. Mack, J. D. Taylor, Bernard (Mansfield)
Finch, H. J. McKay, John (Wallsend) Taylor, Robert (Morpeth)
Fletcher, Eric (Islington, E.) Mackay, R. W. G. (Reading, N.) Thomas, David (Aberdare)
Follick, M. McLeavy, F. Thomas, George (Cardiff)
Foot, M. M. MacMillan, Malcolm (Western Isles) Thomas, Iorwerth (Rhondda, W.)
Forman, J. C. MacPherson, Malcolm (Stirling) Thomas, Ivor Owen (Wrekin)
Fraser, Thomas (Hamilton) Mainwaring, W. H. Thorneycroft, Harry (Clayton)
Freeman, John (Watford) Mallalieu, J. P. W. (Huddersfield, E.) Thurtle, Ernest
Freeman, Peter (Newport) Mann, Mrs. Jean Timmons, J.
Gaitskell, Rt. Hon. H. T. N. Manuel, A. C. Tomney, F.
Ganley, Mrs. C. S. Marquand, Rt. Hon. H. A. Turner-Samuels, M.
Gibson, C. W. Mathers, Rt. Hon. G. Ungoed-Thomas, Sir Lynn
Gilzean, A. Mellish, R. J. Vernon, W. F.
Glanville, James (Consett) Messer, F. Viant, S. P.
Gooch, E. G. Middleton, Mrs. L. Wallace, H. W.
Gordon-Walker, Rt. Hon. P. C. Mikardo, Ian. Watkins, T. E.
Greenwood, Anthony (Rossendale) Mitchison, G. R. Webb, Rt. Hon. M. (Bradford, C.)
Greenwood, Rt. Hn. Arthur (Wakefield) Moeran, E. W. Weitzman, D.
Grey, C. F. Monslow, W. Wells, Percy (Faversham)
Griffiths, David (Rother Valley) Moody, A. S. Wells, William (Walsall)
Griffiths, Rt. Hon. James (Llanelly) Morgan, Dr. H. B. West, D. G.
Griffiths, William (Exchange) Morley, R. Wheatley, Rt. Hon. John (Edinb'gh E.)
Gunter, R. J. Morris, Percy (Swansea, W.) White, Mrs. Eirene (E. Flint)
Hale, Joseph (Rochdale) Mort, D. L. White, Henry (Derbyshire, N. E.)
Hale, Leslie (Oldham, W.) Moyle, A. Whiteley, Rt. Hon. W.
Hall, John (Gateshead, W.) Mulley, F. W. Wilcock, Group Capt. C. A. B.
Hamilton, W. W. Murray, J. D. Wilkes, L.
Hannan, W. Nally, W. Wilkins, W. A.
Hardy, E. A. Neal, Harold (Bolsover) Willey, Frederick (Sunderland)
Hargreaves, A. Noel-Baker, Rt. Hon. P. J. Willey, Octavius (Cleveland)
Hastings, S. O'Brien, T. Williams, David (Neath)
Hayman, F. H. Oldfield, W. H. Williams, Rev. Llywelyn (Abertillery)
Henderson, Rt. Hn. Arthur (Tipton) Oliver, G. H. Williams, Ronald (Wigan)
Herbison, Miss M. Orbach, M. Williams, Rt. Hon. Thomas (Don V'lly)
Hewitson, Capt. M. Padley, W. E. Williams, W. T. (Hammersmith, S.)
Hobson, C. R. Paling, Rt. Hon. Wilfred (Dearne V'lly) Winterbottom, Ian (Nottingham, C.)
Holman, P. Paling, Will T. (Dewsbury) Winterbottom, Richard (Brightside)
Holmes, Horace (Hemsworth) Pannell, T. C. Wise, F. J.
Houghton, D. Pargiter, G. A. Woods, Rev. G. S.
Hoy, J. Paton, J. Wyatt, W. L.
Hubbard, T. Peart, T. F. Yates, V. F.
Hudson, James (Ealing, N.) Popplewell, E. Younger, Rt. Hon. K.
Hughes, Emrys (S. Ayrshire) Porter, G.
Hughes, Moelwyn (Islington, N.) Price, Philips (Gloucestershire, W.) TELLERS FOR THE NOES:
Hynd, H. (Accrington) Proctor, W. T. Mr. Pearson and Mr. Sparks.
Hynd, J. B. (Attercliffe)

Question put, and agreed to.