HC Deb 26 July 1951 vol 491 cc648-50
Mr. Speaker

The hon. Lady the Member for Tynemouth (Miss Ward) has not risen to ask me her question. Does she wish me to give my Ruling straight away?

Miss Ward

Yes, Sir.

Mr. Speaker

The hon. Lady recently asked me why it was in order for the Minister of Fuel and Power to deal with a Question about miners when the Minister of Transport refused to deal with a Question about railway workers.

I am sure she will realise that one cannot answer wide generalisations of that sort. Ministers are not responsible for the day-to-day working of the nationalised industries, and have refused to make ad hocinquiries to secure information on that working.

The answer given on 23rd July by the Minister of Fuel and Power, on which the hon. Lady's submission is based, dealt with statistical information which this Minister has collected and published for many years, and for which no application has to be made to the Board. It is wholly the responsibility of the Minister. I have no knowledge of any similar statistics collected or published by the Minister of Transport. If the hon. Lady can satisfy me that such exist, Questions upon them would equally be in order.

On the same day the Minister answered a Question as to the steps he himself proposed to take to increase the numbers of miners—not steps which the Board might take.

These Questions, therefore, both fulfilled the condition of Ministerial responsibility necessary to enable them to go on the Paper.

Mr. P. Thorneycroft

Arising out of that Ruling, Sir—and without in any way questioning it—is not the process simply this: that Questions are initially put down to one or other of those Ministers, and if at any time one of those Ministers rises and says, "This is not my responsibility," then, from that time on, no further Question upon the subject is admissible; so that, in point of fact, the decision as to whether any Question is admissible lies in the hands of the Ministers themselves, and they have only to refuse to answer a particular type of Question for no further Questions to be permitted.

Mr. Speaker

That is not so. Very often we argue very much with a Minister as to whether it is his responsibility or not. Very often we allow the Question against the Minister's wishes. We have to take some responsibility in the matter, in common fairness. The Prime Minister.

The Prime Minister indicated assent.

Miss Ward

With very great respect, there have been Questions which have been answered by the right hon. Gentleman the Minister of Fuel and Power on the shortage of miners in the pits—Questions which have nothing whatever to do with statistical information. Surely if the Minister of Fuel and Power accepts responsibility—and he has accepted the responsibility ever since I have returned to the House of Commons—for dealing with this matter it is not in order for the Minister of Transport to refuse in a similar case. Otherwise, the Minister of Fuel and Power must always have been out of order.

Mr. Speaker

If the hon. Lady will draw my attention to these Questions I will look at them. I cannot remember every Question which is asked. I cannot carry that in my head over a period of time. I will certainly look into any Questions she may bring to my notice.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Mr. Gaitskell)

I beg to move—

Mr. Bowles

On a point of order. May I ask, Mr. Speaker, whether you called the Prime Minister's name and he nodded? Is that an indication of "Now, Sir," or do we not need a "Now, Sir," at this stage? You called the Prime Minister, who nodded. Then the hon. Lady the Member for Tynemouth (Miss Ward) asked a question. May I ask you whether the Prime Minister said "Now," or whether it is enough for him to have nodded?

Mr. Speaker

No one had to say "Now," for this is the ordinary business.

Mr. Bowles

I did not hear it said and I listened very carefully indeed.

Mr. Speaker

In any case, we want to get on with the business.

Mr. Bowles

I agree that we want to get on with business, but we also want to understand where we are. I understand that the Assistant Whip says he said "Now." With great respect, I listened very carefully for anybody on the Front Bench to say "Now," and nobody did. I doubt very much whether "Now" is necessary at this stage. I only ask whether the Prime Minister said "Now" when you called him, for I do not think he did.

Mr. Speaker

I do not think "Now" is at all necessary at this stage. I called the name of the Prime Minister and he nodded, but there was no need for him to nod at all; and then I went on to call the right hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer, who I knew was going to initiate today's debate.

Mr. Bowles

I wonder whether you have looked at the matter since last night, Mr. Speaker, and whether even Orders of the Day have to be introduced by the word "Now." I have looked it up and I doubt very much whether they always have to be.

Mr. Speaker

I do not think it is necessary always. The Orders are read at the beginning. This point arises at the end of Business, when we are going through the Orders which have not been reached or are not going to be called.