§ 61 and 62. Mr. Arthur Lewisasked the Minister of Food (1) whether he will now ban the supply of meat to all catering establishments and use the meat thus saved to increase the domestic ration;
§ (2) what would be the total amount of meat saved if supplies to all catering establishments were banned; and how much increase, per domestic ration book, would result in transferring the amount saved from this proposed ban to domestic use.
§ Mr. WebbThe meat supplies to all catering establishments is equivalent to about 1¾d. worth a week on the domestic ration. This includes meat for residents in hotels who surrender their ration 403 books, and meat for industrial canteens and for schools. The meat supplied in the remaining cases is equivalent to no more than about one-third of a pennyworth of meat per week on the domestic ration. I do not think, therefore, that I should be justified in withholding meat from catering establishments.
§ Mr. LewisDo I understand the Minister to say that it is 1¾d. per catering establishment? If that is the case—
§ Mr. SpeakerThe hon. Gentleman wants to ask a supplementary question and I want to hear it, too.
§ Mr. LewisDid I understand the Minister to say—[HON. MEMBERS: "No."] Mr. Speaker, may I ask you—[HON. MEMBERS: "No."] I am putting a point of order to you, Mr. Speaker. May I ask you to keep the rabble on the other side in order?
§ Mr. Churchillrose—
§ Mr. LewisI was asking the Minister a supplementary question and now I am addressing you, Mr. Speaker.
§ Mr. Godfrey Nicholsonrose—
§ Mr. ChurchillMay I draw your attention, Mr. Speaker—
§ Mr. SpeakerWe cannot have two points of order at once. I did not understand that the hon. Gentleman was raising a point of order.
§ Mr. ChurchillOn a point of order—
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder, Order! I understand that the hon. Gentleman was rising to a point of order and then the right 404 hon. Gentleman rose to object to something that he said. I must hear the first point of order first and the other point of order second.
§ Mr. LewisI was putting a point of order to you, Mr. Speaker. Because of the noise that the other side was making—[HON. MEMBERS: "Rubbish."]—I did not hear the beginning of the Minister's reply and I was, therefore, asking him to confirm what I understood him to say. I was asking you whether I was in order in putting to the Minister what I understood him to say, so that he could give me the answer clearly and I could put my supplementary question.
§ Mr. SpeakerAs far as that is concerned, it is all right, but I much regret that the hon. Member in losing his temper said "Rabble." It was a very unparliamentary word. However, he amended it next time by saying "the other side."
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. The hon. Member said "the other side." That I accepted and I think that is right.
§ Mr. LewisIn view of what you have said, Mr. Speaker, I withdraw unreservedly and I say instead, the unruly noise from the other side. Now can I put my supplementary question? Did I understand that if the suggestion were carried it would mean the equivalent of 1¾d. per domestic ration? If that is the case, can the Minister explain why it is that if anyone has enough money and enough time he can get as many steaks as he wants in the West End of London? Will my right hon. Friend also explain where they get that meat from if the allowance is equivalent to 1¾d.?
§ Mr. ChurchillOn my point of order. Mr. Speaker, I only wanted to get a final ruling from you on the matter. Because an hon. Member is raising a point of order, that does not entitle him, in the course of putting his point of order, to use disorderly and insulting expressions.
§ Mr. SpeakerI quite agree with the right hon. Gentleman but, after all, the hon. Member withdrew his unparliamentary word when I suggested it was wrong. I. hope that will settle the matter.
§ Mr. WebbIt is important for the House to get this matter in proportion. The truth is that the outside supplies of meat in this country are, on the whole, a valuable supplementary source of feeding. To destroy them would not add anything at all appreciable to our ration and would, in fact, be depriving large numbers of people of necessary and helpful sources of food.
§ Wing Commander BullusIs the right hon. Gentleman making provision for extra supplies for catering establishments for the Festival of Britain visitors?
§ Mr. RankinIs my right hon. Friend aware that while hotels may be a valuable supplementary source of feeding for some people, they are not a valuable supplementary source of feeding for the majority of people in this country?
§ Mr. WebbMy answer referred not only to hotels, but to industrial canteens and schools. I ask hon. Members on this side of the House to recognise the importance of industrial canteens and schools.
§ Mr. C. S. TaylorWill the Minister consider circulating in the OFFICIAL REPORT—I am not asking for them now—figures showing the proportion which goes to industrial canteens and the proportion which goes to other catering establishments?
§ Colonel Gomme-DuncanWould the right hon. Gentleman, when considering this important matter, bear in mind the most unfortunate situation in which the farm worker finds himself?