New Clause.—(POWER OF SECRETARY OF STATE TO CONDUCT INQUIRIES AND TO OBTAIN INFORMATION.) (Hansard, 13 February 1951)

§ The Lord Advocate

I beg to move, "That the Clause be read a Second time."

The purpose of this Clause is to enable the Secretary of State, acting in the interests of Scotland, to get the necessary information in relation to freshwater fisheries. Certain investigations have been carried out and are at present being carried out—for example, an investigation into the migration of salmon and the possibility of improving the stocks of trout. At present, however, we are dependent on the voluntary co-operation of proprietors. At this stage I would like to pay a tribute to that voluntary co-operation and to the facilities which have been given. Salmon proprietors have allowed the officers of the Department to tag salmon, and the North of Scotland Hydro-Electric Board have provided accommodation at Pitlochry for investigation into brown trout.

These investigations have been carried out under the general powers of my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State in relation to fisheries. Anyone who has had any experience of fish in Scotland will recognise the importance of such investigations, but to get full information so that the investigation might be complete and the research as comprehensive as possible it is deemed advisable to have these statutory powers. The rights of owners and occupiers of fisheries are protected in paragraph (a) inasmuch as it is specifically provided that no damage shall be done to the fisheries and that no interference shall be caused to the rights of the owner or occupier of such fisheries.

310 Paragraph (b) empowers the Secretary of State to collect from the proprietors and occupiers statistics of salmon which have been caught. At present the Department is dependent for information on returns furnished by railway and steamship authorities. The total catch has to be estimated on the basis of these figures, and they are obviously of a limited nature and value. So that Government policy for protection and development of the salmon fisheries may be based on sound knowledge of the industry, more detailed information is required. Accordingly, it is the object of paragraph (b) to enable such information to be collected.

Paragraph (c) provides for the publication of statistics, but care is taken to withhold the disclosure of information relating to particular undertakings until a period of 10 years has elapsed. In other words, what is contemplated is that there may be publication in the annual reports on Scottish fisheries in relation to a particular year without disclosing at the time the returns from the fisheries of an owner. This means that the confidential information which he will have given to the Department will not be made available to the public until the expiry of 10 years when, of course, no real damage could occur by its disclosure.

On the other hand, it will be possible to give the general picture at the time of the returns in a particular area. We feel that if we are to tackle this aspect of the development of our fishing stocks by scientific research these powers are necessary to supplement the existing voluntary co-operation which we are getting from the owners. I trust, therefore, that in the interest of scientific research and the improvement of our fishing stocks in Scotland, the new Clause will commend itself to the Committee.

§ Mr. Thornton-Kemsley

I want to raise a practical point with regard to paragraph (b) which may give rise to some difficulty if attention is not paid to it. This paragraph will, of course, apply to net sea fishing as well as to rod and line fishings. Here we are dealing with very considerable businesses, many of them operating numerous different fishing stations, each of which, I suppose, might well be a separate fishery.

311 The sort of thing that happens—I know, because there is one of these big concerns in my constituency—is that a concern of this kind might operate as many as 20 different fishing stations. Lorries would have to collect fish from over an area of 20, 30 or 40 miles—I know of one case in which the distance is 50 miles—of coast. According to the tide, these lorries are picking up fish from the different stations and coming into the central depot. All the fish are mixed together, iced and boxed. They come in at mid-day and have to catch the 1 p.m. train to the South. It all has to be done as quickly as that in certain conditions of the tide.

If these people are to have to take elaborate notes about the exact weight of each fish and from exactly which station they come, then the scheme would operate very much against their being able to get the fish to the market in fresh condition. I do not imagine that any such thing would, in fact, happen, but I issue this note of warning. Many of these fishings are hired from the Crown on Crown leases, and the Crown requires particulars to be given of the number of fish caught, the species or description, and weight but they accept these returns on a yearly basis and are quite prepared to accept average weights. I hope that that sort of thing would be accepted by the Secretary of State and that whoever drew up the instructions to be drawn up under the Clause would bear in mind the practical difficulties I have tried to outline, in the requiring of exact particulars and weights of every fish caught at every station.

I do not think that the right hon. Gentleman would be as exacting as that—I hope not. I have sought these details from my constituents who are concerned in these things, and I understand it would be quite possible to give particulars of weight, classification, species, and so on, of the fish over a six-monthly period, or perhaps over a monthly period, or even daily, so long as it is not required in respect of every separate station. It all boils down to what is meant by a "separate fishery." If it means a separate station, then there would be difficulties. I am not against the Clause—I think it is a good one; but I want merely to sound the note of warning that 312 it might be very difficult to operate the scheme unless these practical considerations are borne in mind.