HC Deb 06 December 1951 vol 494 cc2566-70
Mr. C. R. Attlee

Will the Leader of the House state what the business will be on the resumption after the Christmas Recess?

The Minister of Health (Mr. Harry Crookshank)

Yes, Sir. The business for the first week after the Christmas Recess will be as follows:

TUESDAY, 29TH JANUARY—Second Readings: Hydro-Electric Development (Scotland) Bill.

Metropolitan Police (Borrowing Powers) Bill.

Electricity Supply (Meters) Bill.

Industrial and Provident Societies (No. 1) Bill.

Committee stage of the necessary Money Resolutions.

WEDNESDAY, 30TH JANUARY—Debate on Welsh Affairs.

THURSDAY, 31ST JANUARY—Committee and remaining stages:

Merchant Shipping Bill.

Judicial Offices (Salaries, &c.) Bill.

Diplomatic Immunities (Commonwealth Countries and Republic of Ireland) Bill.

Second Reading: British Museum Bill.

FRIDAY, 1ST FEBRUARY—Consideration of Private Members' Bills.

During the week it is hoped to take the Committee and remaining stages of the Festival Pleasure Gardens Bill, if reported in time from the Select Committee to which it has been referred.

Mr. Attlee

Two questions arise out of that statement. Will the Welsh debate be on a Government Motion or on the Adjournment; and can an early day be arranged, after our return from the Recess, for a debate on Central African federation?

Mr. Crookshank

I shall have to consider both those requests. They are both obviously matters of importance, and there were some suggestions that the Central African debate should have been this side of Christmas; but as regards the more specific question about the Welsh affairs debate, I think that perhaps the form of debate may well be considered through the usual channels.

Mr. Thomas Steele

Can the Leader of the House help regarding business when we come back? Yesterday I introduced a Bill, and I am wondering if it could be possible to have the principle debated in the Scottish Grand Committee. It will be within the knowledge of the Leader of the House that during the 1945–50 Parliament there was an arrangement between the Government and the Opposition for an alteration of Standing Orders which enabled purely Scottish matters in Scottish Bills to be dealt with on Second Reading in the Scottish Grand Committee. I understand that the Government are anxious to help one Private Member's Bill along, and, that being so, is it not reasonable that my Bill, which was introduced yesterday, might have its Second Reading in the Scottish Grand Committee?

Hon. Members

What Bill is it?

Mr. Crookshank

Without looking up the exact references which the hon. Gentleman has mentioned I could not give the hon. Member an answer, but my general impression was that there is a difference between Private Members' Bills and other business.

Mr. Steele

I had the same impression, but I was told by the Public Bill Office that this was a Public Bill introduced by a Private Member, and that Standing Order No. 60 states that this Bill could be debated on Second Reading in the Scottish Grand Committee. What it requires is a Motion from a Minister to that effect to be moved in the House. Extra Ministers for Scotland have now been appointed, and in view of the fact that there is now no Scottish legislation other than this on the Order Paper, we think it quite reasonable to ask the Government to move the necessary Motion that the Second Reading of this Bill be taken in the Scottish Grand Committee. I am sorry that the Secretary of State for Scotland is not with us because he may have given us a lead.

Lieut.-Colonel Walter Elliot

If permission were given for this Bill to be dealt with on Second Reading in the Scottish Grand Committee, would permission also be given to other Private Members' Bills which might be introduced from this side of the House?

Mr. Crookshank

That shows that this is a matter which obviously requires consideration, and as Leader of the House I am not prepared to give a quick answer today.

Mr. John Paton

Might the House generally be let into the secret of what is the Bill we are talking about?

Mr. Hector McNeil

It is a Bill which limits the sale of houses in Scotland which are normally available for letting. The right hon. and gallant Member for Kelvingrove (Lieut.-Colonel Elliot) has made a false point. What we are pressing on the Leader of the House is that since the Standing Orders provide for Scottish business to be taken in the Scottish Grand Committee, and since this is a Bill exclusive to Scotland, it would be eminently reasonable, and save the time of the House as well as providing room for another Bill, if this Bill were remitted to the Scottish Grand Committee.

Mr. Crookshank

That may be so, but until I study the matter I cannot give an answer. The hon. Member for Dunbartonshire, West (Mr. Steele) studied the matter this morning. If he had rung me up I would have studied it too, but I did not and, therefore, I am not in a position to make a definite statement now.

Mr. Douglas Jay

As we are discussing business eight weeks hence, can the Leader of the House, or perhaps the Minister of Education, who is now with us, give the assurance that the Prime Minister was afraid to give earlier, that the Government will take no steps during the Recess to alter the school-leaving age?

Sir Richard Acland

Would the Leader of the House seriously consider an early date after we resume for a debate on Malaya, in view of the very genuine anxieties which were aroused at Question time yesterday on this subject?

Mr. Crookshank

I think we shall have to see when we come back what are the most important subjects to be debated. I will take note of it.

Mr. C. S. Taylor

May I ask the Leader of the House whether the Government will give time for a debate on a Motion which stands on the Order Paper in the name of certain of my hon. Friends and myself about the conduct of a right hon. Gentleman in debate, in view of the fact that this Motion is designed to up-bald the prestige of the House?

[That, in view of the fact that some of the words used by the right honourable Gentleman the Member for Easington during the debate on the Committee stage of the Home Guard Bill on the morning of 28th November, 1951, were unbecoming one of His Majesty's Privy Councillors and a Member of this House, this House is of the opinion that the offending words should be expunged from the OFFICIAL REPORT.]

Mr. Crookshank

I do not think that it will be possible.

Mr. Frederick Peart

Will the Leader of the House say whether time will be given for the Motion in my name, and that of over 100 hon. Members, asking that no economies should be made in the educational system by lowering the school-leaving age or raising the entry age? In view of the importance of this matter, and because we have been sidetracked today, will the right hon. Gentleman give us an assurance? Will he give us a reply?

Mr. Crookshank

We are discussing the business for the week when we return. The hon. Gentleman knows that after we return there will be alternate Fridays available for Private Members' Motions, and, therefore, it seems to me that the subject he has in view might very well come on then.

Mr. A. C. Manuel

Would the Leader of the House, before his researches into the Standing Orders about the Bill mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Dunbartonshire, West (Mr. Steele), to see if the constitution would allow the matter to be debated on Second Reading in the Scottish Grand Committee, give us an assurance that he would be receptive to the idea of that being done? The idea of a limitation on the sale of tenant-occupied houses is an important matter to the people of Scotland.

Mr. Speaker

On this matter may I say that the remission of a Bill is business which cannot be taken until the order for Second Reading of the Bill is before the House. As that is postponed to 28th February we cannot settle it today.

Mr. Steele

What we are asking to be done, Sir, is for the Bill to go to the Scottish Grand Committee for the purpose of Second Reading.

Mr. Speaker

It does not seem possible to decide that question at the moment.

Mr. George Thomas

Would you advise me, Mr. Speaker, whether there is left to hon. Members, within the rules of the House, any way by which we can help to allay public anxiety about education, and obtain a statement from the Leader of the House that no major decision will be taken whilst Members are silenced through the Recess?

Mr. Speaker

That is not a matter for me.

Mr. C. S. Taylor

On a point of order. I do not wish to press this point unduly at the moment, but as the Motion on the Order Paper to which I previously referred affects the conduct of a right hon. Gentleman in debate and may, indeed, affect the honour of the right hon. Gentleman, would it not be right for this matter to be discussed at an early date?

Mr. Speaker

That is not a point of order.