§ 7.15 p.m.
§ The Lord AdvocateI beg to move, in page 3, line 3, to leave out from "if," to the end of line 5, and to insert:
The Bill at present provides that the Court shall be deemed to be duly constituted
- (a) it consists of an uneven number of judges, not being less than three; and
- (b) (subject as hereinafter provided) at least one of the number of judges of which it consists is a judge of the Court by virtue of paragraph (a), (b) or (c) of subsection (1) of section one of this Act.
if it consists of not less than three judges (of whom at least one is the Lord Chief Justice or a puisne judge of the High Court) and of an uneven number of judges.This Amendment arises out of the discussions we had in Committee on an Amendment by the hon. and learned Member for Wirral (Mr. Selwyn Lloyd) the purpose of which was to allow the Court to sit without the Lord Chief Justice or without a puisne judge of the High Court where it is required to sit outside the United Kingdom. We are giving effect to that proposal in the immediately following Amendment.In the course of the discussion, I raised the question whether or not it was justifiable to have the Clause as it stands in the Bill. I felt, and I think it was the feeling of the Committee, that even when the Court was sitting in the United Kingdom, it did not seem right that the condition with regard to the judges should be confined merely to the Lord Chief Justice and the puisne judges of the High Court, because, under Clause 1, judges from Scotland and Northern Ireland are also to be members of the Court. I felt, and again I think it was the feeling of the Committee, that it would be an invidious comparison to confine the condition here merely to the puisne judges of the High Court, to the exclusion of the judges of Scotland or Northern Ireland. Therefore I intimated that I would like to consider between then and now, and after consultation with the Lord Chief Justice, whether or not we should table an Amendment on Report stage enabling any of the three sets of judges set out in Clause 1 (1, a, b, c) to fulfil the conditions with regard to the constitution of the Court.
923 The Lord Chief Justice was consulted, and notwithstanding the fact that the law to be administered is substantially the law of England, he is in favour of this proposal to amend Clause 2 to the effect of incorporating Scottish and Northern Ireland judges as well as puisne judges of the High Court. I am convinced that that is the right course, and I trust that this Amendment will commend itself to the House.
§ Mr. Selwyn Lloyd (Wirral)Neither I nor my hon. Friends wish to quarrel very much with the Lord Advocate in this matter. In Committee he did permit his nationalism to creep out in one or two instances, and he has taken this opportunity to give some documentary proof of it. I gather that he would repeat what he said during Committee stage, that the normal practice would be for the Court to sit in England with either the Lord Chief Justice or a puisne judge of the High Court sitting as one of its members. In those circumstances we have no objection to this Amendment.
§ Amendment agreed to.
§ The Lord AdvocateI beg to move, in page 3, line 10, at the end, to insert:
(4) Where the Court is directed to sit at a place outside the United Kingdom, the Lord Chancellor may, if he thinks it expedient so to do, direct that paragraph (b) of subsection (1) of this section shall not have effect in relation to the Court while sitting at that place.This Amendment is one that I have already foreshadowed. It arises as a result of the discussion on the Amendment moved in Committee by the hon. and learned Member for Wirral (Mr. Selwyn Lloyd), the object of which was to allow the Court, when sitting outside the United Kingdom, to sit either without the Lord Chief Justice or, now, one of the judges whether they be English, Scottish or from Northern Ireland. At the time I said that the principle was acceptable, but in view of the fact that we wished to look at the whole matter, including the subject dealt with in the last Amendment, the particular Amendment was withdrawn. I did, however, give an undertaking that something would be put down at this stage of the Bill to enable effect to be given to the principle. That has been done by this Amendment.I would say, further, that I think it manifestly desirable that a judge should 924 be included in the Court where at all possible. This would normally be the case, but circumstances might arise, particularly during a war, when it might not be feasible. So by this Amendment the power is given to the Lord Chancellor to direct that the condition that a judge be a member of the Court need not apply.
§ Mr. Selwyn LloydI should like to thank the right hon. and learned Gentleman for proposing this Amendment. We thought that it would be an improvement to have something of this sort to give a wider latitude, very much for the reasons which the right hon. and learned Gentleman has given. We thank him, and we accept the Amendment.
§ Amendment agreed to.