HC Deb 19 October 1950 vol 478 cc2213-7
28 and 29. Mr. Wood

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department (1) what is the present establishment of the Civil Defence forces; and when further instructions on this subject will be given to those responsible for their organisation;

(2) what measures he proposes to take to stimulate recruitment to the Civil Defence forces.

38. Brigadier Prior-Palmer

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how soon an establishment for Civil Defence units will be issued to local authorities.

27. Mr. Osborne

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many have volunteered for the Civil Defence Service, to the nearest date; how many are still required; and if he will make a statement.

Mr. Ede

At the end of September the number of volunteers in England and Wales was approximately: 61,500 in the Civil Defence Corps, 5,500 in the Auxiliary Fire Service, and 4,500 in the National Hospital Service Reserve, making a total of about 71,500. As regards establishments, I shall let all Civil Defence Corps authorities have these very shortly. I hope that as a result of the national and local recruiting drive which was inaugurated by the Prime Minister's broadcast on Sunday there will soon be big increases in all these Services.

Mr. Wood

Is the Home Secretary aware of the great inconvenience caused by the uncertainty of the authorities concerned about the establishment? Could he really not get this establishment out as soon as he possibly can?

Mr. Ede

I do not think there need be any uncertainty that these authorities should enlist as many persons as they possibly can.

Brigadier Prior-Palmer

Is it not one of the difficulties facing authorities in enlisting officials that they are not able to tell them what their duties are likely to be until this establishment has been published? Will the Home Secretary say what he means by "in the near future"? Six weeks, or six months?

Mr. Ede

I think it will be even less than six weeks.

Brigadier Head

Is the Home Secretary aware that one of the biggest deterrents to recruiting for Civil Defence forces at the present time is the uncertainty of the future of the Home Guard? The sooner it is settled the better it will be for recruiting.

Mr. Ede

The Home Guard is not within my jurisdiction.

Brigadier Head

Then the sooner the Home Secretary gets a decision out of somebody else the better.

30. Mr. Wood

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many volunteers for civil defence have come forward since the Prime Minister's broadcast on 29th July.

Mr. Ede

I regret that this information is not available from the recruiting returns, but in the quarter between the end of June and the end of September the combined strengths of the Civil Defence Corps, Auxiliary Fire Service and National Hospital Service Reserve in England and Wales rose from 39,000 to 71,500.

Mr. Wood

Would the Home Secretary take every opportunity of stressing the extreme urgency of getting these essential services well trained and manned?

Mr. Ede

Yes, Sir, but I hope I shall not be left to do it by myself. I hope that every citizen of good-will will also take his part.

Brigadier Prior-Palmer

Is the Minister aware that until a decision is reached about reserved occupations, and in regard to the age there will not be recruits coming forward either for Civil Defence or for any other voluntary service?

Mr. Ede

No, Sir. I cannot understand the idea that people should be reluctant to come forward because, after they have been trained, they might not be required. No one can be overtrained in these matters. The ordinary citizen may often have to render help for which he will be better qualified if he has undergone some training.

Brigadier Prior-Palmer

Does not the right hon. Gentleman recognise that there is such a thing as esprit de corps, and that people want to get back to their old units if there is the slightest chance? Until they are told that there will be an upper age limit of 40, or whatever it may be, they are reluctant to come forward, because they hope that they may be allowed to join the Home Guard.

32. Mr. Deedes

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he is aware of the lack of response to his appeal for volunteers in the Civil Defence forces; and what fresh steps he is contemplating to stimulate recruiting in the rural areas, particularly in South-East England.

The Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mr. Geoffrey de Freitas)

As regards the first part of the Question, I would refer the hon. Member to the Prime Minister's broadcast on Sunday. As regards the second part, the recruiting drive which has just opened will cover both urban and rural areas including those in South-East England.

Mr. Deedes

Will it be possible for the Home Office to publish the recruiting figures at regular intervals so that the level of recruiting can be judged?

Mr. de Freitas

Yes, Sir.

33. Mr. Deedes

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he is satisfied that local authorities are making it sufficiently clear to the public where they should go and to whom they should apply in order to offer then-services to the Civil Defence forces; and if he will take further steps to make this information more widely known.

Mr. de Freitas

I am satisfied that in general they are doing so, but I am asking them to give special attention to it.

Mr. Deedes

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that many local authorities have not been given any indication where volunteers should go or what they are to do when they join up, and that that is one of the reasons for the lack of recruits?

Mr. de Freitas

I am aware that some have not. That is why we are issuing a circular in the next day or two.

37. Brigadier Prior-Palmer

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how a proportion of the sum of £100,000,000 is to be allocated to local authorities; and what is the maximum sum permitted to be spent by a local authority without prior sanction from his Department.

Mr. de Freitas

This sum covers the preparations of all Departments which have Civil Defence responsibilities and the hon. and gallant Member will appreciate that it is not possible at this stage to forecast what proportion will be allocated to local authorities; apart from other factors which are at present uncertain, the expenditure of local authorities will depend to a large extent on the progress of recruitment for the Civil Defence Corps. The extent to which a local authority is required to obtain prior sanction varies according to the class of expenditure and over a large part of the field general authorities have been given. In these cases there is no need for prior sanction.

Brigadier Prior-Palmer

Is the hon. Gentleman aware of a recent case in which a local authority had to receive prior sanction for the expenditure of £9 10s.? Will he take some steps to see that that ludicrous sort of situation does not arise?

Mr. de Freitas

It is not necessarily ludricrous, but I will certainly look into the case if details are sent to me.

39. Brigadier Prior-Palmer

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether any policy relating to air raid shelters has been formulated; and, if so, how soon will local authorities be informed of the details.

Mr. Ede

If the hon. and gallant Member will be good enough to repeat his Question on the next Thursday on which Oral Questions can be asked, I hope to be in a position to make a statement.

Brigadier Prior-Palmer

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that in the meantime local authorities are having to hold up their planning until they get a directive from the Home Office on this matter?

Mr. Ede

Yes, Sir, but I shall not wait until I make my statement in the House before informing them.