HC Deb 27 November 1950 vol 481 cc793-800
Mr. Barnes

With permission, I will now answer Questions Nos. 42, 69 and 73. I propose to revoke the existing regulations relating to pedestrian crossing places and to make new regulations. The most important change will be the omission of any reference in the regulations to the rights and duties of pedestrians and drivers respectively at crossings at road intersections where traffic is controlled by light signals or police officers. At these intersections the control in itself provides substantial protection for pedestrians and I propose to deal with such crossings in the Highway Code rather than by regulations. The stud markings at these crossings would be retained.

Experiments carried out during the past two years by the Road Research Laboratory have shown that black and white stripes not only make crossings more conspicuous, but have a good effect on drivers' behaviour and on the use of the crossings by pedestrians. I propose, therefore, that all uncontrolled crossings, on which pedestrians will continue to have precedence over vehicular traffic, should be marked with black and white stripes. Crossings which are controlled by police officers intermittently or during certain hours of the day would also be striped, but pedestrians would not have precedence on such crossings when traffic there was being controlled by police.

I agree with the view of the Committee on Road Safety that there are too many crossings and that many are in the wrong places. It is my aim to effect a substantial reduction in the number of uncontrolled crossings. I hope that by so reducing the number of crossings and improving the marking of those which are to remain, and by applying to those crossings new and simplified regulations, road users will be inspired with a new respect for, and confidence in, pedestrian crossings, and in so far as behaviour still falls short of the ideal the police will be able to enforce the law more easily.

This proposed new policy cannot be put into effect without the full co-operation of local authorities and I propose, therefore, as the next step, to consult their representative organisations. I will at the same time discuss with my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary what can be done to see that the new and simplified regulations are effectively enforced on the reduced number of crossings to which they will apply.

Mr. Janner

I should like to thank my right hon. Friend for his statement, which I am sure will be welcomed in all parts of the House. I wish to ask two questions. First with regard to the publication of these regulations in the Highway Code, as it is usually the users of motor vehicles who read that code, would he ensure that when he is consulting with the local authorities, full publicity for pedestrians will be given to the regulations or to the ideas expressed in his reply? Secondly, will my right hon. Friend also take into consideration the importance of having the crossings at island sites if possible, because that gives an opportunity for one line of traffic to proceed?

Mr. Barnes

In answer to the first question, if these proposals command general confidence, I believe that publicity can bring them home quite easily and make them understood both by pedestrians and drivers. On the question of island sites, I have indicated that we propose to reduce the number of uncontrolled crossings. That will mean that consultation will take place between the officers of my Department and other informed personnel in order to choose the crossings most carefully.

Viscount Hinchingbrooke

Will these regulations be subject to affirmative or negative Parliamentary procedure and, if the former, when will the right hon. Gentleman lay them on the Table? Will he undertake to allow a few days to elapse, in view of their complexity, before he moves them?

Mr. Barnes

They will be subject to negative resolution procedure. I certainly will circulate them in good time so that I can collect as much information as possible. I cannot give the date when I shall lay the regulations, because consultations will have to take place with the local authorities. It is imperative in a matter of this kind that I should secure the largest possible measure of agreement.

Mr. John Hynd

Are we to understand from my right hon. Friend's statement that he has not yet found an answer to the most serious problem of these crossings, namely, the protection of pedestrians crossing a side street when cars which have been given the all-clear are turning from the main road into the side street? Could not that difficulty be met by the arrow system, which is already in operation elsewhere?

Mr. Barnes

At controlled crossings—whether by lights or police—neither drivers nor pedestrians will have a prior right, but, if the rules are followed, the system of controls in itself should give a substantial measure of protection. Of course, no system can guard against any person who contravenes the general precautions.

Mr. C. S. Taylor

Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether, at crossings controlled by lights, pedestrians will be subject to the same penalties as motorists who cross against the lights?

Mr. Barnes

That will be governed by the Highway Code. Hon. Members should bear in mind that I shall not put this in the regulations. I shall give guidance in the Highway Code. I should not like to be drawn into questions of law. That is a matter which the courts would have to decide under common law procedure.

Mr. Snow

Is my right hon. Friend aware that I have sent to the Parliamentary Secretary a most brilliant thesis by Mr. Leech on the subject of accidents, and would he give me an undertaking that he will read the work himself; also, if it is his intention to republish the Highway Code, could it be done this time in a concise, readable and well-illustrated way?

Mr. Barnes

I do not propose to reissue the code because of these modifications. That would be a much too expensive method. I shall inquire from the Parliamentary Secretary about the thesis, but I hesitate to commit myself.

Mr. Joynson-Hicks

Does the statement of the right hon. Gentleman mean that he has virtually abandoned the idea of getting pedestrians to cross the road at other than pedestrian crossings, and is not his policy of getting them to cross the road at other than pedestrian crossings dangerous?

Mr. Barnes

I suggest that the hon. Gentleman should read the reply, because it would seem that he has got the point wrong. It is at uncontrolled crossings that the pedestrians will get precedence. At controlled crossings they will have to follow the lights or police control.

Mr. Eric Fletcher

Can my right hon. Friend say when he expects the regulations will take effect? Does he agree that in view of the policy he has announced it is desirable that they should be brought into operation as soon as possible?

Mr. Barnes

I am particularly anxious to push on with them, but we must get the co-operation of the local authorities as they are so much involved.

Mr. Renton

Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether the cost of the change will fall on his Department, or on local authorities?

Mr. Barnes

It will be a matter of grant-in-aid, according to the classification of the road.

Lieut.-Colonel Lipton

Is it to be understood from my right hon. Friend's principal answer that he intends to limit the use of the black and white markings to uncontrolled crossings only, because a number of local authorities, including Lambeth Borough Council, have black and white crossings and traffic lights?

Mr. Barnes

Yes, that is the main purpose of this change, to get clearly in the minds of pedestrians and drivers that a striped crossing is where the pedestrian will have precedence and that in regard to controlled crossings, they are subject to the system of control in being, We want to avoid any confusion or overlapping in this respect.

Lieut.-Colonel Lipton

Who is to pay for removing the black and white crossings where there are traffic lights?

Mr. Langford-Holt

When the regulations come into effect what will be the position of the Belisha beacon? Will it be obsolete, or will it be replaced?

Mr. Barnes

The question of lighting crossings is now being examined by the road research section and I am not proposing to decide the fate of the Belisha beacon until I get the report on the lighting of pedestrian crossings.

Mr. Ivor Owen Thomas

Will my right hon. Friend indicate the possibility of an increase in the number of pedestrian subways at some of the more busy crossings in various parts of our towns and cities?

Mr. Barnes

I certainly agree that subway crossings are a vital safety element, but I regret that the economic and financial position does not permit me to indicate that any more will be introduced.

Mr. Drayson

Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether it will, or will not, be an offence for a pedestrian to cross against the lights?

Mr. Barnes

I really cannot get involved in any legal opinion. If hon. Members will study the report they will see clearly the general directions there stated.

Mr. Hector Hughes

Arising out of the reply given by my right hon. Friend to the hon. Member for Eastbourne (Mr. C. S. Taylor), will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that motorists and pedestrians are not subject to the same penalties physically?

Mr. Nicholson

I believe the right hon. Gentleman indicated that he would lay the regulations before the House early in order to get the opinion of hon. Members. Will it not then be too late to amend the regulations? Would it not be better to consult hon. Members before the regulations are drafted?

Mr. Barnes

Hon. Members can put down a Prayer for the purpose of discussing the matter, but, if there is a general desire, I will also again consider convening a meeting in the House, prior to the regulations being laid, so that hon. Members could discuss the matter. I convened such a meeting the other day, but the circumstances were not very favourable.

Mr. Hayman

In framing the regulations, will my right hon. Friend preserve the utmost freedom possible for the pedestrian?

Mr. Barnes

As I have indicated in regard to the uncontrolled crossing, the pedestrian will now have clear and undisputed right.

Sir H. Williams

Will the right hon. Gentleman clear up the point put by my hon. Friend the Member for Eastbourne (Mr. C. S. Taylor)? According to the regulations, will my right hon. Friend preserve the utmost freedom possible for the pedestrian?

Mr. Barnes

As I have indicated in regard to the uncontrolled crossing, the pedestrian will now have clear and undisputed right.

Sir H. Williams

Will the right hon. Gentleman clear up the point put by my hon. Friend the Member for Eastbourne (Mr. C. S. Taylor)? According to the regulations, will a pedestrian be just as liable to prosecution as a motorist?

Mr. H. Strauss

Will the right hon. Gentleman give a little further consideration to the light-controlled crossings, bearing in mind the point raised by an hon. Member sitting behind him? Does he realise that a pedestrian observing the lights is, in certain cases, given no safe period at all for crossing? Will the right hon. Gentleman consider that point?

Mr. Barnes

Yes, we have already given that very careful consideration, but it is impossible to cover every contingency in view of the great varieties of system of light control. One has only to think of Hammersmith Broadway, for instance, to realise the complexities of the problem. But I think this goes a very long way as a commencement.

Mr. Haire

Will my right hon. Friend encourage pedestrians to give a hand signal of intention to cross the road before leaving the pavement at uncontrolled crossings?

Mr. Barnes

Certainly not. I do not think that we can depend on the judgment of every pedestrian to use a hand signal before crossing.

Miss Irene Ward

When will the right hon. Gentleman be in a position to make a statement about the lighting of Belisha beacons?

Mr. Barnes

I am sorry, but I cannot give a date. How long the research board will be completing their investigations I am unable to say at present.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

In view of the fact that the right hon. Gentleman has said that the regulations will be subject to negative procedure, will he give an assurance that they will be laid well before they come into effect as, otherwise, if the House decided to annul them, there would be absolute chaos?

Mr. Barnes

Certainly.

Mr. Chetwynd

Will my right hon. Friend arrange for more light-controlled crossings for operation by pedestrians?

Mr. Barnes

That is an exceedingly difficult point which does not come under consideration on this matter. It involves controlled crossings and light-controlled crossings in general and I do not want it to be mixed up with the system whereby the pedestrian has precedence.

Major Legge-Bourke

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that many crossings now have the direction "Cross now," or "Do not cross" for pedestrians only? Will he encourage more of these crossings, because that seems the safest way of protecting the pedestrians?

Mr. Barnes

Where circumstances permit, yes.

Lieut.-Colonel Lipton

Will my right hon. Friend reply to my earlier question: Who is to pay for the cost of removing the black and white crossings where there are traffic lights?

Mr. Barnes

I thought I had already said that that will be subject to the normal grant system.

Lord John Hope

On a point of order. May I ask, Sir, whether the Government intend to give the House a report on the Korean situation in view of the fact that the Minister of Defence undertook to do so—

Mr. Speaker

That is not a point of order. A point of order is something to do with procedure on which I can answer. The noble Lord is asking a question on business.

Mr. C. S. Taylor

May I ask a further question of the Minister of Transport? Is it right that these traffic regulations should be introduced in a form in which they can only be accepted or annulled by the House, and are not capable of amendment? Would it not be fairer, in view of the great public interest in this matter and the great variety of opinions, to introduce a short Bill to enable us to debate them if necessary?