HC Deb 18 May 1950 vol 475 cc1380-2
38. Mr. J. R. Bevins

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department the total cost of the Fire Service College for the years 1948–49 and 1949–50; the weekly cost per officer trained in those years; and the estimated cost of the college for 1950–51.

The Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mr. Ede)

The total cost of the Fire Service College in 1948–49 was £43,744 and the weekly cost per officer trained was about £40; the accounts for 1949–50 have not yet been closed, but the corresponding figures are expected to be about £47,500 and £36 respectively; the estimated cost for 1950–51 is about £50,000. The last figure does not include the cost of adaptations to the new and smaller premises to which it is hoped to move the College next year.

Mr. Bevins

Will my right hon. Friend consider closing this very expensive and extravagant showpiece?

Mr. Ede

I am hoping to move this College into much smaller premises, which will result in very substantial saving.

Mr. Nicholson

Would not the same end be served if the officers were attached to fire brigades in London and the larger cities, instead of having this extraordinarily wasteful establishment?

Mr. Ede

No, Sir, it would not.

40. Mr. Bevins

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he is aware that the total cost of fire services in England and Wales has increased from £2,857,387 in 1936–37 to, approximately, £12,000,000 in 1948–49; and what steps he proposes to reduce the cost without impairing efficiency.

Mr. Ede

Comparisons with 1936 are apt to be misleading. Apart from changes which have since taken place in the conditions of service of firemen, the fire protection of the country at that time was inadequate, whether for peace or for war, and it was for the purpose of improving the position that the Fire Brigades Act of 1938 was passed; the provisions of that Act were extended and adapted by the Fire Services Act, 1947. I have no reason to suppose that the local fire authorities are not mindful of the need for due economy but, while every vigilance will be exercised in curbing any expenditure that may be unnecessary, I do not think that any substantial reduction of the present cost is possible without impairing efficiency.

Mr. Bevins

Is not my right hon. Friend aware that while many local authorities are mindful of the need for due economy they are inundated with circulars and instructions from the right hon. Gentleman's Department which compel increased expenditure?

Mr. Ede

No, Sir. No instructions are issued by my Department, but circulars giving advice are sent round.

Mr. David Renton

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the structure which the Fire Service Act compels local authorities to adopt is causing enormously increased expenditure without increased efficiency? Has not the time come to review that Act, with a view to cutting down the public expenditure involved?

Mr. Ede

I would point out that before the Act of 1938 the London County Council was the only authority which had a statutory duty to provide a fire service and that a large number of smaller urban and rural districts had no satisfactory service at all. We cannot expect that an adequate service can be provided in view of those conditions without a substantial increase in cost.

Mr. Emrys Hughes

Is not the cost less than 2 per cent. of the money spent on the Defence Services?