HC Deb 18 May 1950 vol 475 cc1452-4

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Clause stand part of the Bill."

Mr. J. Grimston

I do not want to repeat all the factual criticisms that were made on Second Reading of the actual construction of the grids which will be covered by regulations under this Clause. Since the date of the Second Reading the Minister has placed a model of a grid in the Members' cafeteria. I am sorry to tell him that it is subject to almost all the mistakes in grid construction that could possibly be made, so I hope he will look at that model and have with him a copy of the Second Reading Debate.

For example, there is no traffic sign on either side of the grid. There is no traffic sign on the vertical fence between the grid and the by-pass gate. There is a black stone wall on the inner side of the grid which would be extremely dangerous at night. The grid is much too deep. It is either too wide or too narrow, depending for which purpose it is wanted. The bars are much too far apart—there are some excellent model cows there and one has only to stand them on the grid and they fall straight into it.

Since the Second Reading I have been measuring the spaces between the bars of grids, and I can tell the Minister that 3¼ inches is the maximum. Anything more than that and a beast will get its feet down and almost certainly break its leg. Again, the bars are welded together. Sooner or later they will get bent. They must be removable. A beast will get down there, and cannot be got out unless there is a relatively quick way of taking the bar away at the end. There is a steel manhole cover projecting into the by-pass, which is dangerous. One has only to displace the manhole cover and any vehicle using the by-pass will go down into it. I cannot think of more, but those criticisms are enough and they were all made during the Second Reading Debate.

In addition, I hope the regulations will provide for varying kinds of grid. The Minister seems to have photographed the experimental grids put down by the Cumberland County Council. He said there were only 180 in this country, but there are thousands in the Empire. Do not let the Minister condemn us to adopt the experimental standard of the Cumberland County Council and say that this cannot be improved. Also, I hope the Minister will not make the excuse that the model was delivered before the Second Reading. I took the trouble to ring up the model makers this afternoon and they told me they had the model five days after the Second Reading, so many of the improvements could have been incorporated in it.

Mr. Barnes

It is quite clear that my Department has consulted the wrong expert on this matter. When I started to consider these cattle-grids for the purpose of helping the agricultural interests, I was assured it was a simple and straightforward process. As I have gone along I have begun to realise that it is one of the most complicated problems on the highways of this country I have ever had to deal with. However, I can assure the hon. Member that before the grids are installed there will be a much more thorough investigation than has taken place in the production of the model.

Sir T. Dugdale

The secret of this business is that the bars must be the right distance apart. If they are, no animal will attempt to go on them and there are no accidents, but if they are wrong, there will be any number of accidents, which will be costly to the local authorities because a lot of animals would break their legs. We are grateful to hear that the Minister will look into this point again.

Question put, and agreed to.

Clause ordered to stand part of the Bill.