HC Deb 05 July 1950 vol 477 cc477-9
50. Mr. Osborne

asked the Minister of Food why it is not possible to show the trading profit or loss made on subsidised foods; and what difficulties have been found to prevent this being done.

The Minister of Food (Mr. Maurice Webb)

The food subsidy total for any given year is fixed in advance and is, of course, usually announced in the Chancellor's Budget speech. It is based on estimates of subsidies on individual foods in the light of estimated supplies and prices. But to keep to this total my Department needs to have flexibility of operation between these subsidised foods. We have to adjust selling prices from time to time to take into account changes in costs and supplies. This means that there can be no hard and fast or permanent subsidy figure for any particular commodity. Our final net loss on trading in the Ministry is, in effect, the total amount of our subsidy. I am afraid there is no practical means of breaking this down at any particular time, into any specific figure for any single commodity.

Mr. Osborne

How can the Minister say that it is impossible to give trading losses on subsidised foods when page 8 of the Trading Accounts shows that on fresh fruit and vegetables there was a profit of £3½ million, and, on cocoa, of £2 million? If he can show the profits why cannot he show the losses?

Mr. Webb

The Public Accounts Committee have considered this matter and are very well aware of our problem. They broadly agree with the answer I have given, and accept that, on occasion, when there is any anxiety about a particular commodity, the control of the Public Accounts Committee provides the opportunity for examination of that particular problem. Beyond that, it is just not possible to go.

Mr. Nally

In any consideration of this kind, will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that many of us on this side of the House are just as deeply interested in what profits and losses, if any, are being made by so-called private enterprise on foods that are not subsidised?

Mr. Cuthbert

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that a great deal of the difficulty about which we are hearing at present would be surmounted if he followed the advice in the report of the expert committee called the Committee on the Form of Government Accounts, which suggested, over a year ago, that the Ministry of Food should start a trading fund which would separate trading operations from this glorious cover for losses called a "subsidy"?

Mr. Webb

The report of that committee has just come to hand, and is now being examined.

Mr. W. Fletcher

In view of the Government's own statement on the Cohen Committee recommendations and of the Companies Act, which followed, regarding the clear showing of profits and losses in public corporations, would not they adopt the same system for their own accounts?

Mr. Webb

It is obviously better to wait for our examination of the report referred to in the previous supplementary question.