HC Deb 27 October 1949 vol 468 cc1509-12
40. Mr. Blackburn

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many crimes have been committed during the last 12 months involving violence or unlawful threats on the grounds of political persecution; and what complaints his Department has received in this connection.

Mr. Ede

Crimes are not recorded and classified on the basis of motive, and I am accordingly not in a position to answer the first part of the Question. As regards the second part of the Question, complaints are received from time to time. Each complaint is investigated and appropriate action taken.

Mr. Blackburn

Has my right hon. Friend's attention been drawn to the allegation made by a Conservative Peer, Lord Mancroft, which, he says, is supported by evidence, that the timid Tories of today are being intimidated and bullied all over the country by the Labour Party? Is there any truth in that allegation?

Mr. Ede

If the noble Lord will submit his information to me I will have it investigated.

42. Mr. Nally

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department the nature of evidence received by him concerning threats and intimidation employed by trade union officers against electors voting or likely to vote in the Conservative interest; and what action he has taken or proposes to take in the matter.

Mr. Ede

I have received no such evidence.

Mr. Nally

In view of the fact that Lord Mancroft, a leading officer of the Tory Party, has made allegations involving criminal charges, namely, that in the exercise of their franchise in certain areas, which he named, potential Conservative voters had been intimidated and threatened with personal violence, can I have an assurance that my right hon. Friend will forthwith approach Lord Mancroft and ask him for evidence of these serious charges, which he has not only seen fit to make but to repeat?

Sir P. Hannon

On a point of Order. Is it in Order, Sir, for an hon. Member of this House to make aspersions of that kind upon a Member of another place?

Mr. Ede

I do not think I am called upon to approach anyone in this matter. If anyone has evidence and sends it to me I will see that it is placed before the Director of Public Prosecutions.

Mr. Peter Thorneycroft

Would the right hon. Gentleman agree that even if intimidation of this kind was widespread, about the last person ever to hear of it would be a Socialist Home Secretary?

Mr. Ede

My ears are always open, and I am prepared to listen to Tories or Socialists or anyone else on this matter. I have lively recollections of the persecution suffered by my own parents for the political views they held.

Mr. Speaker

Perhaps I may answer the question put to me by the hon. Member for Moseley (Sir P. Hannon). I think it is wrong to mention a noble Lord's name in this House. It may have appeared in the newspapers, and could be referred to as a statement by an individual, but to attack a noble Lord in his capacity as a noble Lord is contrary to our Rules.

Hon. Members

Withdraw.

Mr. Nally

Further to the point of Order. With great respect, Sir, I must submit that the terms I used in reference to the noble Lord were neither disrespectful nor intended so to be. They were a statement of fact. I mentioned his name in connection with a statement which he himself admitted making. If I may say so, I think it is an extremely serious position if one cannot mention a noble Lord's name in this House when, in their Lordships' House, the names of Members of this House are frequently mentioned.

Mr. Speaker

We have to be careful that we do not engender bitter relations between this House and the other place. That is one of our oldest Rules. We have to be careful in referring to Members of another place.

Earl Winterton

Mr. Speaker, have you not previously laid down that while, of course, it is in Order to criticise a noble Lord who is a Minister, it is not in Order to criticise in this House a statement made by a noble Lord either in or out of another place? May I call attention, in support of that, to the fact that this habit on the part of certain hon. Gentlemen opposite of attacking noble Lords is growing?

Mr. S. Silverman

Further to the advice which you, Mr. Speaker, were good enough to give the House a few moments ago, is it not the case that our Rule has always been that we must not quote by name or otherwise statements made in the other House by a Member of that House? Has there ever been any Ruling that when a Member of the other House makes a statement in the country and not in the House of Lords, he has any greater privilege than any other citizen would have of having his remarks challenged in the House of Commons?

Mr. Speaker

Remarks can be challenged, but prejudice need not be imported by mention of the fact that he is a Member of another place. For instance, I have often ruled that newspaper proprietors can be criticised, not because they are Members of the other place but because they are newspaper proprietors. I think that is a distinct Ruling unless my recollection is wrong, and I do not think it is. It is fairly clear that we always should be courteous about Members of another place so as not to embitter relations between the two Houses.

Mr. S. Silverman

Does it not, therefore follow that, if that is the case, Members of another place, in their speeches, either in that place or in the country, should take very great care not to make provocative statements and take advantage of their privilege to make accusations that cannot be challenged in this House?

Mr. Speaker

The hon. Member will remember that we have Rules and the other place does not have Rules.

Several Hon. Members

rose—

Mr. Speaker

I think we had better get on.

Mr. Gallacher

rose—

Mr. Speaker

I said that we ought to get on. If the hon. Member does not like my Ruling he can put a Motion down challenging me. I think now we ought to get on with the Business.