§ 1. Mr. Boyd-Carpenterasked the Secretary of State for War how many men called up for service under the National Service Acts are at present employed in pay offices; and how many civilians have been replaced by them in these offices.
§ The Secretary of State for War (Mr. Shinwell)It is not the practice to make public the numbers of soldiers engaged on particular duties and it is not possible to say how many civilians have been directly replaced by the employment of National Service men in pay offices. It can, however, be said that some 2,500 more civilians or regular soldiers would at present be needed in these offices in the United Kingdom if National Service men were not used.
§ Mr. Boyd-CarpenterMay I take it that that answer means that in fact in a certain number of cases the right hon. Gentleman has replaced civilians by men called up under the National Service Acts, and is not this attempt to obtain cheap labour a gross abuse of the purpose of the National Service Acts?
§ Mr. ShinwellI think not. This is part of the training of some of the National Service men. We may require these men on these duties in the event of an emergency, and obviously they must have preparatory training.
§ Mr. A. R. W. LowIs not it clear that the right hon. Gentleman would not require National Service men for these duties if he had permanent or temporary civil servants doing them? May I ask 456 him again to assure the House that the National Service system is not being abused in the way in which his first answer indicated?
§ Mr. ShinwellNo, Sir, I am quite satisfied that there is no abuse, and I should like to tell the hon. Member that the National Service men in the Pay Corps do receive a certain amount of military training.
§ Mr. Boyd-CarpenterI beg to give notice that, in view of the admission of the right hon. Gentleman as to the use which he is making of National Service men, I shall—if the Government last long enough—raise the matter again.
§ Mr. ShinwellWe shall last long enough.