HC Deb 25 May 1949 vol 465 cc1240-2
19. Mr. Beswick

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Civil Aviation what steps are taken before associated agreements are granted to charter companies to run scheduled services, to ensure that the conditions set out in paragraph viii (a) of his directive, are in fact met by the charter companies concerned.

Mr. Lindgren

Each company is required by a clause in its agreement with the Corporation to undertake to observe the condition set out in paragraph (viii) (a) of the directive.

Mr. Beswick

Is not my hon. Friend aware that a number of these charter companies have refused to sign an agreement with the British Airline Pilots' Association, even though those agreements were, as I think my hon. Friend will agree, most reasonable; and if they are, in fact, adhering to paragraph viii (a) can my hon. Friend say why this agreement has not been signed?

Mr. Lindgren

It is true that our attention has been called to the fact that certain charter companies are not observing fair rates of pay and conditions of employment. The associate agreement with B.E.A. is, I am informed, a contractual one and can be discontinued by B.E.A. on their being satisfied through the usual channels that the agreement is not being observed.

Mr. Beswick

May I ask my hon. Friend to refer again to my Question, in which I asked what steps are taken to ensure that the agreements are in conformity with the directive sent out by his noble Friend?

Mr. Lindgren

In the first place, the associate agreement is a contractual obligation between B.E.A. and the persons with whom the agreement is made. Therefore, the first step must be made by one or other of those two sides. As far as any disagreement is concerned, if it cannot be resolved between the two sides the services of my Ministry, and particularly of the Ministry of Labour, who have a great deal of experience in these matters, are at the disposal of the unions and the Corporation.

Mr. Beswick

I am sorry to press this matter, but in point of fact in the directive it is stated that before a recommendation is made to the Minister the Air Transport Advisory Council are asked to see that these conditions are fulfilled.… How do they make certain that the conditions are fulfilled?

Mr. Lindgren

The British Air Charter Association are doing their best to see that an agreement is, in fact, negotiated, but it is unfortunately true that a number of charter companies who are members of the British Air Charter Association are not prepared to make an agreement providing for rates of pay and conditions of service which are considered to be fair inside the trade union movement.

Mr. Scollan

How does it come about that the pilots' association are prepared to supply pilots to these people who will not observe the conditions of the B.E.A.?

Mr. Lindgren

The pilots' association are a trade union and not an employment agency. They do not supply pilots; if they did, they would see that fair rates of wages were observed. These are negotiated in the normal way as between employer and employee.