HC Deb 24 March 1949 vol 463 cc530-2
6. Mr. J. Langford-Holt

asked the President of the Board of Trade what policy he proposes to adopt with regard to trade agreements with the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, Bulgaria, Roumania and Hungary, having regard to the repeated breaches of the Peace Treaties committed by all these Powers.

Mr. Piratin

On a point of Order, Mr. Speaker. There is a statement in this Question which is outside the bounds of fact completely. The statement I refer to is in the last part of the Question which reads: haying regard to the repeated breaches of the Peace Treaties committed by all these Powers. That, Sir, includes the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. To my knowledge we have no peace treaty with the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

Hon. Members

Who are "we"?

Mr. Platts-Mills

We have never been to war with them since Churchill.

Mr. Piratin

I am raising a point of Order with you, Mr. Speaker. Surely hon. Members opposite should not be so uncouth as to interrupt my discussion with you, Sir? I am suggesting that this Question is completely out of Order because it is not based on fact and, with the greatest of respect, it is not even in Order on the Order Paper. There is no peace treaty with the Soviet Government, and therefore, there can be no breach of a peace treaty which does not exist.

Mr. Speaker

Of course, the hon. Member who puts down the Question is responsible for the facts he states therein—

Mr. Piratin

But, Sir—

Mr. Speaker

After all, the hon. Member for Mile End (Mr. Piratin) may not have heard the statement made by the Minister of State the other day, which I think rather bears out the facts in this Question.

Mr. Langford-Holt

Is it not in Order for an hon. Member of this House to put down Questions based on facts presented to him by the Foreign Secretary and by the Minister of State. Can I point out to the hon. Gentleman—

Hon. Members

No.

Mr. Speaker

We must not debate the matter. We had better get on with having the Question answered.

Mr. Gallacher

Further to that point of Order, Mr. Speaker. No matter whether a statement was made by the Minister of State or not, how is it possible for a breach of treaty to be made by a country with which we have no peace treaty?

Mr. Speaker

I am not concerned with that. I am concerned with the question of whether the Question is in Order or not, and I am perfectly satisfied that, having passed the Table it is in Order.

Mr. Langford-Holt

Is it not a fact that the U.S.S.R. did sign all these treaties?

Mr. Speaker

We cannot go on arguing the matter. We must have the answer to the Question.

Mr. H. Wilson

The answer to the Question is that His Majesty's Government are guided in their trade relations with these countries by considerations, of economic advantage and cannot make it a rule that trade agreements with these countries shall be subject to the settlement of political questions.

Mr. Langford-Holt

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is a danger that, whereas the statements made by the Foreign Secretary of disapproval are played down, his entering into trade negolions is given wide publicity as signifying approval of the régime?

Mr. Wilson

No, Sir. I am quite certain that these countries approach this matter in exactly the same way as we do: that is, from the point of view of economic advantage.

Colonel Crosthwaite-Eyre

Can the right hon. Gentleman say what economic advantage we have gained from giving half a million pounds credit to Hungary?

Mr. Wilson

If the hon. and gallant Gentleman would like to put down a Question on the whole advantages which this country has had from the food agreements with Hungary, we shall be very glad to give him a full answer.

Captain Crookshank

How can the right hon. Gentleman or the Government divorce economic advantage from the necessity of adhering to engagements, solemnly entered into, even if they are in the political sphere?

Mr. Wilson

I should have thought that the last people ever to talk on the subject of financial and trade agreements would be representatives of the party who were negotiating with Hitler within two or three weeks of the outbreak of war.

Viscount Hinchingbrooke

While, as was said yesterday, there is no desire in any part of the House to seal the Eastern and Western frontiers irrevocably, can the right hon. Gentleman set a great many fears at rest by indicating a list of goods which it would be possible to send in exchange for what we receive from these countries and which are not in the nature of war export?

Mr. Wilson

The noble Lord is right to stress this aspect of the matter. We keep a very close watch on the kind of goods that should be sent to these countries and I hope before very long to indicate to the House a complete list of those goods which we consider should not be sent.