HC Deb 18 July 1949 vol 467 cc952-3
27. Mr. Stokes

asked the Minister of Transport whether he has considered the saving in manpower and general expense which would be achieved by abolishing the use of tickets on buses and on the underground railway in the Metropolitan area; and if he will make a statement as to the directions he will issue to the Transport Commission to bring about this reform.

Mr. Barnes

I do not consider this a very practical proposal and I have no intention of issuing a direction to the British Transport Commission on the lines suggested.

Mr. Stokes

That is one of the difficulties in putting down a Question on this subject. May I ask my right hon. Friend whether he has considered the fact that at rush hours all these vehicles are always full, and whether he—I mean he himself; I do not mean the Transport Commission—has calculated the manpower involved in printing tickets, issuing tickets, punching tickets, collecting tickets and counting tickets; and whether he will devise some more intelligible means of dealing with the transport system than the antiquated system incepted by the Opposition?

Mr. Barnes

I quite admit that there is a point of substance in the issue raised by my hon. Friend, but London itself is really a special problem. We are always examining that problem, but if we are reaching the stage which my hon. Friend suggests I think experiments will have to be undertaken elsewhere than in London.

Mr. Keeling

Has the Minister considered the statement of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that as it is quite unnecessary for nationalised industries to avoid making a loss, there can be no objection in principle to everybody travelling free?

Mr. Barnes

I am glad to see the rate of progress which even the hon. Member for Twickenham (Mr. Keeling) is making.

Mr. Sydney Silverman

Would my right hon. Friend say whether the problem in London is very different from the problem in New York, where they dispensed long ago with the issue of tickets on all the 'bus services and on all the subways?

Mr. Barnes

The finance of London transport is entirely different. This strikes very deeply at the financial results and I am afraid it is too big an issue for me to be able to deal with it in Question and answer.

Mr. Stokes

While accepting my right hon. Friend's statement that it is a bit difficult for him to deal with this by Question and answer, may I ask him whether he is aware that I have no objection to his extending the system I suggest to other concentrated areas of population? Will he really pay serious regard to this problem and realise the difficulties hon. Members face in being unable to ask constructive questions on this very vital issue?