HC Deb 11 July 1949 vol 467 cc145-52

Considered in Committee.

[Major MILNER in the Chair]

1. Whereas it appears by the Navy Appropriation Account for the year ended the 31st day of March, 1948, that the aggregate Expenditure on Navy Services has not exceeded the aggregate sums appropriated for those Services and that, as shown in the Schedule hereto appended, the net surplus of the Exchequer Grants for Navy Services over the net Expenditure is £15,776,537 8s. 9d., namely:

SCHEDULE
No. of Vote Navy Services, 1947–1948 Votes Deficits Surpluses
Excesses of actual over estimated gross Expenditure Deficiencies of actual as compared with estimated Receipts Surpluses of estimated over actual gross Expenditure Surpluses of actual as compared with estimated Receipts
£ s. d. £ s. d. £ s. d. £ s. d.
1 Wages, &c, of Officers and Men of the Royal Navy and Royal Marines and Women's Royal Naval Service. 2,618,890 7 4 — — 487,701 16 6
2 Victualling and Clothing. — 987,892 7 1 2,783,822 12 5 —
3 Medical Establishments and Services. 84,706 12 10 — — 60,198 7 9
4 Civilians employed on Fleet Services. 1,417,183 11 11 — — 11,824 10 10
5 Educational Services — — 33,205 17 7 15,576 17 2
6 Scientific Services — — 1,130,976 15 10 50,843 6 7
7 Royal Naval Reserves — 49 15 0 174,411 10 7 —
8 Shipbuilding, Repairs, Maintenance, &c.—
Section I.— Personnel 338,426 3 7 — — 587,825 8 2
Section II.—Matériel 2,001,928 8 2 — — 8,203,914 3 3
Section III.—Contract work. — — 4,315,333 13 1 937,784 15 11
9 Naval Armaments — — 1,116,000 2 8 2,297,411 0 9
10 Works, Buildings, and Repairs at Home and Abroad. — — 2,217,377 5 11 506,652 15 2
11 Miscellaneous Effective Services. 2,635,261 13 2 — — 1,007,990 0 9
12 Admiralty Office 565,187 10 0 6,314 18 5 — —
13 Non-effective Services. 252,935 13 2 5,760 0 9 — —
14 Merchant Shipbuilding, &c. — — 319,794 14 1 520,794 5 2
— Balances Irrecoverable and Claims Abandoned. 88,365 10 0 — — —
10,002,885 10 2 1,000,017 1 3 12,090,922 12 2 14,688,517 8 0
Total Deficits: Total Surpluses:
£11,002,902 11s. 5d. £26,779,440 0s. 2d.
Net Surplus £15,776,537 8s. 9d.
£ s. d.
Total Surpluses … 26,779,440 0 2
Total Deficits … 11,002,902 11 5
Net Surplus … £15,776,537 8 9

And whereas the Lords Commissioners of His Majesty's Treasury have temporarily authorised the application of so much of the said total surpluses on certain Grants for the Navy Services as is necessary to make good the said total deficits on other Grants for Navy Services.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the application of such sums be sanctioned."

9.12 p.m.

Commander Galbraith (Glasgow, Pollok)

I think you will probably recall, Major Milner, that a few days ago some very serious figures were given by the Financial Secretary to the Admiralty in this House in relation to recruiting, when he told us that a very large proportion of those who might be expected to reengage were not doing so. I wish to draw attention to that and to the fact that it is probably due to the failure to build barracks and married quarters at the planned rate during the past year. I think that it is right that we should draw attention to it in the hope that it may be improved in the future. The same applies to the scientific services.

There is one other matter to which I would draw the attention of the Committee, and I hope that the Parliamentary Secretary may give us some explanation. It is in connection with the deficiency in Vote 11 occasioned, I understand, by the financing of the engineering firm of S. G. Brown, Ltd. It is a fairly large expenditure on this matter amounting to something over £400,000. May we have some reason why that was incurred, the purpose of it, and what benefit is accruing to the service from that expenditure.

The Chairman

I ought to inform the hon. and gallant Gentleman that it is not competent to inquire the reason for a deficit, though he may inquire the reason for a surplus.

9.15 p.m.

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty (Mr. John Dugdale)

In that case, it would be out of Order for me to reply to the second part of the hon. and gallant Gentleman's speech. In answer to the first part, I would only say that the provision of married quarters is certainly a matter to which the Government attach very great importance. But unfortunately in the past there has been a failure to provide them. This Government have found themselves with a gross lack of married quarters for the Navy. We are doing our best to see that they are provided. I hope that as a result we shall find that what the hon. and gallant Gentleman desires and what we desire will take place—namely, that there will be an improvement in recruiting.

The recruiting situation is due to a number of factors but, in so far as the lack of married quarters may affect the matter, it is due to action which was not taken in the past. We are now remedying the situation and we hope that it will have a good effect upon recruiting.

Commander Galbraith

Would the right hon. Gentleman care to make some remarks on the failure to improve accommodation in barracks?

Mr. Dugdale

If I am in Order, I would say that considerable improvements have been made. My hon. Friend the Civil Lord described them in his speech on the Estimates. They are improvements which have been long needed. The conditions in the barracks when this Government came into office were, in many cases, deplorable. We are seeing that improvement takes place as rapidly as possible. The improvements have been out of all recognition to any which took place in the barracks during ten years or more before the war.

Commander Galbraith

Might I put one short question? The right hon. Gentleman does not think then that the lack of people to re-engage is due to either of these causes?

The Chairman

I really do not think that those questions arise. I am not at all sure that the right hon. Gentleman was in Order. Probably it was my fault for permitting him to reply in detail.

II. Whereas it appears by the Army Appropriation Account for the year ended the 31st day of March, 1948, that the aggregate Expenditure on Army Services has not exceeded the aggregate sums appropriated for those Services and that, as shown in the Schedule hereto appended, the net surplus of the Exchequer Grants for Army Services over the net Expenditure is £13,219,660 13s. 11d., namely:

SCHEDULE
No. of Vote Army Services, 1947–1948 Votes Deficits Surpluses
Excesses of Actual over Estimated gross Expenditure Deficiencies of Actual as compared with Estimated Receipts Surpluses of Estimated over Actual gross Expenditure Surpluses of Actual as compared with Estimated Receipts
£ s. d. £ s. d. £ s. d. £ s. d.
1 Pay, &c, of the Army. — — 3,981,911 7 0 35,138 3 4
2 Reserve Forces, Territorial Army and Cadet Forces. — — 397,460 4 2 57,352 7 1
3 War Office — 7,964 2 6 29,870 9 6 —
4 Civilians 415,800 3 7 98,376 12 8 — —
5 Movements — — 3,795,398 1 0 154,166 16 3
6 Supplies, &c. 3,755,226 12 10 — — 1,626,533 14 5
7 Stores — — 2,341,091 5 0 5,395,943 6 0
8 Works, Buildings and Lands. — — 1,280,598 5 9 321,830 12 1
9 Miscellaneous Effective Services. — — 1,332,068 4 0 47,900 8 11
10 Non-effective Services. — — 251,047 9 2 6,127 17 7
— Balances Irrecoverable and Claims Abandoned. 3,557,410 5 9 — — —
7,728,437 2 2 106,340 15 2 13,409,445 5 7 7,644,993 5 8
Total Deficits: Total Surpluses:
£7,834,777 17s. 4d. £21,054,438 11s. 3d.
Net Surplus £13,219,660 13s. 11d.
Resolved, "That the application of such sums be sanctioned."—[Mr. Glenvil Hall.]

And whereas the Lords Commissioners of His Majesty's Treasury have temporarily authorised the application of so much of the said total surpluses on certain Grants for Army Services as is necessary to make good the said total deficits on other Grants for Army Services.

III. Whereas it appears by the Air Appropriation Account for the year ended the 31st day of March, 1948, that the aggregate Expenditure on Air Services has not exceeded the aggregate sums appropriated for those Services and that, as shown in the Schedule hereto appended, the net surplus of the Exchequer Grants for Air Services over the net Expenditure is £32,477,294 15s. 7d., namely:

SCHEDULE
No. of Vote Air Services, 1947–1948 Votes Deficits Surpluses
Excesses of actual over estimated gross Expenditure Deficiencies of actual as compared with estimated Receipts Surpluses of estimated over actual gross Expenditure Surpluses of actual as compared with estimated Receipts
£ s. d. £ s. d. £ s. d. £ s. d.
1 Pay, &c, of the Air Force. 4,757,432 12 4 1,793,297 13 7 — —
2 Reserve and Auxiliary Forces. — — 194 16 2 519,033 2 6
3 Air Ministry 14,534 14 8 1,373 14 6 — —
4 Civilians at Out-stations. — — 407,693 12 9 165,015 9 4
5 Movements — — 3,167,576 10 1 1,511,139 19 6
6 Non-technical Supplies. 1,061,317 12 1 — — 522,948 18 6
7 Technical Supplies and Services. — — 22,362,531 13 6 3,576,491 17 3
8 Works and Lands — 608,831 0 10 8,360,394 9 6 —
9 Miscellaneous Effective Services. — 225,798 19 3 191,784 7 4 —
10 Non-effective Services. — — 163,075 17 9 92,780 0 10
— Balances Irrecoverable and Claims Abandoned. 100,389 19 10 — — —
5,933,674 18 11 2,629,496 4 4 35,172,089 13 5 5,868,376 5 5
Total Deficits: Total Surpluses:
£8,563,171 3s. 3d. £41,040,465 18s. 10d.
Net Surplus £32,477,294 15s. 7d.

Resolved: "That the application of such sums be sanctioned."—[Mr. Glenvil Hall.]

£ s. d.
Total Surpluses … 41,040,465 18 10
Total Deficits … 8,563,171 3 3
Net Surplus … £32,477,294 15 7

And whereas the Lords Commissioners of His Majesty's Treasury have temporarily authorised the application of so much of the said total surpluses on certain Grants for Air Services as is necessary to make good the said total deficits on other Grants for Air Services.

Resolutions to be reported Tomorrow.