Clause 2.—(USE AND ACQUISITION OF LANDS.) (Hansard, 28 February 1949)

§ Mr. Manningham-Buller
I wish to ask the right hon. Gentleman a question about subsection (3), which gives the London County Council power to enter upon, take and use or appropriate, for the purpose of providing substituted sites or facilities for persons displaced from the exhibition site and persons displaced from other land in connection with the exhibition traffic arrangements. It further provides that the London County Council may provide such buildings and facilities, whether permanent or not, as they think desirable on any lands taken under this subsection. I am not familiar with the lands it is proposed to take for this purpose. It may be that they are lands on which there are no buildings at the present time, lands which are not occupied by dwelling houses or shops. The right hon. Gentleman no doubt will be able to tell me; but if they are, what provision is being made for re-housing those people who are moved out? Can the right hon. Gentleman say that the acquisition of this land in Lambeth for this purpose will not involve the dispossession of a single person? If it be the case that it is open land which is being taken, I am a little alarmed by his suggestion that on that land permanent buildings should be erected, because that would seem to imply that, as 75 one of the consequences of this Exhibition, the open spaces of London will be further and permanently reduced.
5.30 p.m.
Therefore, I am entitled to ask the right hon. Gentleman to answer those two questions, one of which really follows upon the other—if there is to be displacement of people from Lambeth what steps are being taken to look after them; and, secondly, if all that is being taken from Lambeth is some of the borough's open spaces, why is the provision here for the erection of permanent houses? I can well understand that permanent houses will be erected if the land taken is really bombed sites, but the right hon. Gentleman ought to give us an explanation of the matter.

§ Mr. Barnes
I am not quite clear what the hon. and learned Gentleman has in mind when he talks about using the open spaces in Lambeth. If he means recreation grounds or things of that character, those are not involved in providing these facilities. As I understand it—and I am not competent to speak with any authority with regard to the affairs of the London County Council—the London County Council has accepted the view that adequate land facilities are available quite close to the vicinity of the area from which these people will be displaced, and that it will provide facilities for those who keep shops and business premises quite close to the structures that will be affected by the Exhibition arrangements.
With regard to householders, I understand that the London County Council intend to deal with them in their general housing proposals. They will carry out developments for two classes. There will be those with business interests who will be provided with facilities on land that is available quite close to where they will be displaced. Housing accommodation for the second class will be dealt with in the general housing facilities and developments that the London County Council will carry through. I am certainly not in a position to deal in any detailed way with the general obligations of the London County Council under this provision, which, after all, is merely giving them the power and authority to carry out such works.

§ Mr. Oliver Poole (Oswestry)
Without going into the question of whether the right hon. Gentleman has fully dealt with the point put forward by my hon. and learned Friend, this subsection, if I read it aright, goes very much beyond the scope of the Bill. I should like to ask the right hon. Gentleman to what extent is it expected that people will have to have alternative accommodation provided by the London County Council, because the purpose of the Bill, reading the Explanatory and Financial Memorandum, is to deal with facilities for those moved, but this subsection (3) enables the London County Council to provide substitute facilities for persons displaced from the Exhibition site and not only that, but those displaced through road improvements, parking spaces, or whatever it might be. It seems that this subsection deals with a rather more narrow aspect of this case, as it gives power to the London County Council to move people from the Exhibition site and find alternative accommodation for them. If that is so, it may be an extensive matter, and the right hon. Gentleman should see whether it is going to be a large-scale movement, or a precautionary measure, for one or two people who are going to move.

§ Mr. Manningham-Buller
I am singularly unsuccessful today in making my points clear to the right hon. Gentleman. I was not raising the question of what happens to people who are moved from the Exhibition to Lambeth, because on Second Reading the Leader of the House dealt fully with that subject, but I was coming back to the question asked by my right hon. Friend the Member for Cirencester and Tewkesbury (Mr. W. S. Morrison) who spoke about the land which is being taken over in Lambeth. That land is referred to in this subsection as follows: … all or any of the lands situate in the borough of Lambeth which are delineated and numbered 60 to 75 (inclusive) on the deposited plans and are described in the deposited book of reference. … I am afraid I have not seen the deposited plans or the book of reference. What I was asking the right hon. Gentleman is—are there any people living on the land so delineated and described at the present time, because if there are, quite obviously they are going to be moved out to make room for the people who are to move into 77 the Exhibition. If they are going to he moved out, what steps are being taken to look after them? That is the question I asked the right hon. Gentleman. If they are being moved out, where do we find any statutory provision for making provision for their moving to other shops and accommodation? I hope I have made clear to the right hon. Gentleman the point which I raised on the first occasion.

§ Mr. Barnes
I should hardly think the L.C.C. would start a general post on this matter.

§ Mr. Manningham-Buller
It does not say they are going to do so. The right hon. Gentleman may speculate as much as he likes about what the L.C.C. will do, but surely he should know and I am asking him to tell the Committee. If these people are not going to be moved from lands in Lambeth, it follows they are bombed spaces. If they are bombed sites, I can understand the provision of permanent buildings, but if they are open spaces I am rather alarmed about the provision. I hope the right hon. Gentleman will answer that simple question.

§ Lieut.-Colonel Lipton (Brixton)
It may be that I can help the Committee at this stage, although I do not speak with any authority on behalf of the London County Council or the Lambeth Borough Council, the two local authorities directly concerned. In the absence of my hon. Friend the Member for Kennington (Mr. Gibson), who happens to be Chairman of the Housing Committee of the L.C.C., I think I am right in saying that there is close co-operation between the two local authorities concerned to ensure that the people who are displaced—and there will be a number of people displaced—will be provided with suitable alternative accommodation. Those who will be displaced because of the needs of the Exhibition include a number of shopkeepers, if my recollection is correct, in or near York Road, which runs by the Exhibition site. It may be in connection with the transport arrangements and the provision of circuses for the easier movement of traffic that other persons will have to be displaced.
I think I am right in saying that the London County Council have considered this matter very carefully. There have 78 been deputations to the L.C.C. from the persons directly affected, through my right hon. Friend the Minister of Supply, who represents that constituency. I think I can give my assurance, for what it is worth, that the position of these people is being most carefully safeguarded and that the London County Council is well aware of the difficulties, the hardship and the inconvenience to which a very small number of people will be subjected in the interests of the Exhibition. With a view to co-operating with the Government in their plans for the Exhibition, every possible step is, I know, being taken by the London County Council to see that no individual is unduly affected in such a way as to hurt him in his business or so far as his business is concerned, or with regard to his living accommodation.

§ Mr. O. Poole
Would the hon. and gallant Member give us an indication of the sort of scope of this movement? When he says "a number of people" is he speaking in hundreds or in tens?

§ Lieut.-Colonel Lipton
So far as I recollect, the number does not reach hundreds. It is a matter of tens. so far as my memory goes.

§ Mr. Manningham-Buller
Could the Minister answer the question that I put to him just now?

§ Mr. Barnes
I think I can give an assurance on that point. This Clause does not mean the destruction of existing property or the movement of people out of existing property for the purpose of rehousing shopkeepers or business people who will be displaced. In the main it concerns open spaces, bombed sites and sites of that description. I am primarily responsible, of course, for the traffic arrangements, but I understand, as my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Brixton (Lieut.-Colonel Lipton) has indicated, that the London County Council and the Lambeth Borough Council have accepted full responsibility in these matters. So far as I know, no difficulties have arisen. I take it that everything is proceeding according to their undertaking. I think I can give that general assurance, without being too definite on details, that these people will be rehoused on bombed sites and open spaces. There will be no further interference caused in the process.

§ Mr. Manningham-Buller
I should like to say, "Thank you" to the right hon. Gentleman for answering the question.