HC Deb 16 February 1949 vol 461 cc1203-17
Mr. Sparks

I beg to move, in page 6, line 21, at the end, to insert: Provided that when an application is made under this Act the chairman or the clerk of the tribunal shall be an experienced lawyer. It is obvious that there should be a lawyer, either as chairman or clerk, for the benefit of the tribunal and those who make application to it. I trust that my right hon. Friend will be able to give an assurance that one or the other will be a lawyer.

The Chairman

It may be helpful if I say that I think that the following Amendment in the name of the right hon. and gallant Member for the Scottish Universities (Lieut.-Colonel Elliot) might be discussed at the same time—in page 6, line 43, at end, add: (6) The Schedule to the Act of 1946 shall, from such date as the Minister may by regulation appoint, have effect as though at the end of paragraph 1 there were added the words 'of whom at least one shall be a barrister or a solicitor of not less than seven years' standing.'

Commander Galbraith

I think these two Amendments might be taken together because they deal with the same point. The hon. Member for Acton (Mr. Sparks) has asked that the chairman or the clerk of the tribunal shall be an experienced lawyer, and we ask that at least one member shall be a barrister or a solicitor of not less than seven years' standing. In view of the intricate matters which will come before the tribunal in consequence of the passing of this Bill, I should have thought that an Amendment of this kind was called for, and that a tribunal should at least have as one of its members, a gentleman with fairly high legal qualifications; indeed, they might be required to be very high. We have had numerous discussions today during which we have heard lawyers of eminence completely opposed to one another as to the meaning of certain passages. If that happens in the House of Commons, I do not know what will happen with these tribunals. Therefore, I hope the right hon. Gentleman will accept the Amendment to which I have spoken, and which I will move later on.

The Chairman

I assume that the hon. and gallant Gentleman appreciates that along with the Amendment he has moved, there must also go the new Clause on page 698 of the Order Paper—

Composition of tribunals.

The Schedule to the Act of 1946 shall, from such date as the Minister may by regulation appoint, have effect as though at the end of paragraph 1 there were added the words "of whom at least one shall be a barrister or a solicitor of not less than seven years' standing."

Commander Galbraith

But I have not moved it.

The Chairman

I must have an understanding that the discussion on this matter, if there is to be one, must cover the new Clause also. It is obvious that we cannot have two discussions, and these Amendments cover the new Clause in the name of the right hon. and gallant Member for the Scottish Universities on page 698.

Commander Galbraith

Yes, it is the same point.

Mr. Bevan

We are getting along well, but we have a long distance to go, and I was hoping that I would not be pressed upon this matter. Obviously, from the interchange that took place just now, if there are to be any lawyers, there should be only one because, if there are two, they will almost certainly quarrel with each other about interpretation, and if there are three, there will be permanent discord. I hope we shall not be limited by this because quite often it has the effect of making it more difficult to set up a tribunal quickly enough where it is insisted upon by the Statute that a certain profession—it does not matter which—should have some one of its number on the tribunal. It means that the administration has to hold up the appointment of a tribunal until a suitable person of that profession has been found. It quite often happens, too, that lawyers are exceedingly busy people.

There is another reason. It does not follow necessarily that these tribunals need legal assistance. They are fact-finding tribunals and, judging by experience in the House, no lawyer is able to look at a fact without reducing it to such a one-dimensional situation that it loses all humanity. I suggest, therefore, that it is essential to look at these facts in the round. I am not suggesting that it is a disqualification to be a lawyer because, when I give the figures of the tribunals, it will be shown that in the majority of cases a lawyer is included. Nor must it be supposed that lay tribunals reach decisions that are more readily challengeable in the courts than they would be if there were lawyers on the tribunal.

Mr. S. Silverman

Or less.

Mr. Bevan

I would not be too precipitate about that. The position will be seen from the figures. Some 23 tribunals in the country do not contain any legal gentleman or ladies, one of those tribunals has been challenged in the courts, and there has been one appearance. There are 40 tribunals with a legally qualified chairman; six have been challenged 12 times.

Mr. Marlowe

Does the Minister mean by appeal?

Mr. Bevan

Certainly, by appeal to the courts. Their decisions were challenged six times.

Mr. Silverman

Were they challenged successfully?

Mr. Bevan

I have not got the decisions.

Mr. Hogg

That makes a difference.

Mr. Bevan

Does it? It means that if the appeal was successful, then it was against the lawyers, but only one appeal has been made against tribunals which had no lawyers on them. There are nine tribunals with a legal member who is not the chairman, and two of these have been challenged three times. I do not want to make too much of this point because it often happens that tribunals with legal chairmen are much busier, they have a much greater number of cases. Therefore, I give these figures rather facetiously without wishing to make any important deduction from them. However, I hope I shall not be pressed. It is fairly easy to get a lawyer—the figures show that in 49 cases out of 72 we have got a lawyer—but I would not like to be constrained to have a lawyer, because of the administrative inconvenience in finding a suitable person, and because these are primarily lay tribunals and not for the purpose of construing the law.

Mr. Marlowe

I want to make this point to the right hon. Gentleman. So far as appeals are concerned, there is no deduction to be drawn at all. The right hon. Gentleman said that he did not take the figures seriously, but he ought not to have put them before the Committee as a guide because, as he knows, there is under the Furnished Houses (Rent Control) Act, 1946, no appeal except on the question of jurisdiction. That is the only ground upon which a case could go to the Court of Appeal. That completely disposes of any deductions which could be drawn from the appeals.

Mr. Bevan

How does that dispose of the argument that there may be no appeals against a tribunal after the passing of the Bill?

Mr. Marlowe

I agree, but the only appeal there may be is one of jurisdiction, and the question of whether a lawyer is hearing the appeal is of no consequence for the purpose of the right hon. Gentleman's argument. I was delighted to hear the hon. Member for Acton (Mr. Sparks) proposing that lawyers should be on these tribunals. It is not often that lawyers receive support from the other side of the Committee. I assure him that we shall remember it in support of the hairdressers. The difficulty here is that there is no doubt that these tribunals will have to discharge an onerous task. It is not so much a question of their being what the right hon. Gentleman called fact-finding tribunals. Difficulties arise more on questions of interpretation. Everybody sitting on these tribunals has to interpret a great number of Statutes other than this one by itself. This one, as we have seen from the fact that it took us a whole day to get through Clause 1, is by no means easy to understand.

6.30 p.m.

There is another argument I want to put before the Committee. While there may have been a case under the 1946 Act for not having lawyers on the tribunal, because comparatively simple issues were involved there and, if the tribunal did make a mistake, no great harm was done because security of tenure was given only for three months, here a much more important principle is involved, for security of tenure is given virtually indefinitely. Therefore, these tribunals may be creating a statutory tenancy which may last for a term of years, which is a very different matter from the security for three months which existed under the 1946 Act. That, I think, brings the thing into quite a different category.

It is possible to argue that under the powers existing in the 1946 Act something in the nature of rough justice could he done, because it affected people for only three months. I suppose it is possible to accept rough justice for three months and to suffer an injustice for that time, but if a person feels aggrieved about the result of a decision of one of these tribunals he must go on suffering that grievance for year after year. That, I feel, is the strongest point which the right hon. Gentleman ought to take into account. He ought to realise that these tribunals are adjudicating between people for that length of time, for a time which fixes their contractual relationship over a very considerable number of years. I ask him to weigh that in the scales and to believe that, on that account, it detracts from the precedent which was set in 1946.

Mrs. Jean Mann (Coatbridge)

I hope that my right hon. Friend will resist the Amendment. I remember that the English Act followed the Scottish one. It followed because Members of this House had gone to Scotland and found out how very successful the tribunals were proving in Scotland. But we did not have lawyers as chairmen. I was a member of a tribunal from the inception of the Act and can say that we had very competent chairmen indeed. The Secretary of State for Scotland at that time, in fact, would have had great difficulty in seeking lawyers.

From my experience in the House I find lawyers singularly unattractive and their political mind exceedingly baffling. Looking at hon. Members opposite, we can see a lawyer and an accountant sitting side by side. I very much prefer the hon. and gallant Member for Pollock (Commander Galbraith), who is an accountant. I think that if he were a member of a tribunal he would be just as competent—there is no disrespect in these remarks—as the hon. and learned Member for Daventry (Mr. Manningham-Buller), who is sitting on his right. I am quite certain also that most of the women of Glasgow think so.

There is another factor which concerns these tribunals. I feel that my hon. Friends on these Benches will very soon be asking that sheriffs shall preside over the tribunals. We are getting very far away from the spirit which dominated the inception of the Act, namely, that the tribunals should be very informal and that there should be nothing about them to deter simple people from coming forward with their cases. I do not find anything difficult in the Bill, which really will be very simple when we have finished with it. The regulations which are issued will be quite simple to follow. The Minister should, I think, have the benefit of accountants, valuers—we often do in Scotland, where we have competent valuers—and other valuable people presiding over these tribunals. These people hitherto have always presided with great competence, and I hope that the Amendment to insist upon the legal mind will be dropped.

Mr. Hogg

The Minister gave two reasons for resisting the Amendment. With one I am in some sympathy, but with the other I am in less sympathy. I am in still less sympathy with what has just fallen from the lips of the hon. Lady the Member for Coatbridge (Mrs. Mann).

Of course, I should not desire to embarrass the Minister's administration of what is, obviously, an urgent temporary Measure, and I can well understand his argument that lawyers are so much sought after that they are difficult to obtain. I sympathise with his difficulties in that respect. I feel it my duty, however, to say a word or two in support of my sometimes rather maligned profession. We may be unattractive, as the hon. Lady thinks—we are not, of course, selected for our sex appeal—and I can well understand her preference for my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Pollok (Commander Galbraith), who is an accountant, to my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Daventry (Mr. Manningham-Buller), whom I have known from his schooldays and who has never been other than he is.

To turn to the serious matter of the Amendment, it is important that the Committee should not give way too much to its very understandable dislike of the want of attraction in lawyers. There are certain things which people think they can do for themselves about which they are very ready to resent interference. One I have noticed is that they always think they know what is good propaganda on their own side. Sometimes we see, on both sides of the House, examples of people not knowing quite as well as they think they do which arguments advance and which arguments do not advance their case.

Another thing I have noticed that people are very apt to think they can do for themselves, and are supremely ignorant of how badly they do for themselves and other people, is trying to administer justice. Justice is not an easy matter. It is not a matter which can simply be approached by a person of good will and common sense with any hope of arriving at consistently good results. In my time I have spoken to all sorts of lay tribunals as an advocate and I can assure you, Major Milner, that there is no capacity in which one finds out their faults and weaknesses quicker than if one appears as an advocate, because then one has to exploit their weaknesses.

It is important that in the administration of justice of all kinds—and this is now one of the very important ways in which justice will be administered, and is actually being administered, in this country—those who have dedicated their lives to the subject should play an important. part. Hon. Members opposite are commonly friendly to appeals to trade union qualifications. I sympathise with them, and have always done so, in that approach to vocations of all sorts. The administration and the love of justice is something which is just as demandant of a dedicated life as other things and I do not myself view without apprehension the ready assumption which comes from hon. Members sometimes that that kind of experience and devotion is of no value. I hope that, as we are constantly, both now and in other connections, setting up new tribunals to administer justice in one way and another, we shall not disregard the need for qualified persons to administer it.

I was not impressed by the statistics quoted by the right hon. Gentleman, nor do I think that he really put them forward seriously. He realised as well as did my hon. and learned Friend that these tribunals are tribunals from which there is no effective appeal. The only way in which their decision can be challenged is when their jurisdiction is in question. For that reason, it is all the more important that those who have made a professional study of this matter should be asked to play their full part in it. Therefore, although I certainly respect the argument which was put forward on the basis of practicability, I hope that the Committee will not listen favourably to what I must regard as irresponsible, mischievous and, I must add, meretricious appeals of the kind to which the hon. Lady has given voice.

Mr. Solley (Thurrock)

I hope that my right hon. Friend the Minister will reconsider his decision and accept one or other of the two Amendments or alternatively tell the Committee that at some later stage he may be able to meet the import of these Amendments by some other Amendment which will enable him. wherever possible, to have as chairman somebody with legal qualifications. I should like to say immediately that no one has been more critical of my own profession in the House of Commons than myself. I make this appeal to my right hon. Friend not because of any false sense of loyalty to my profession—to which I am, of course, loyal—but because it would be in the best public interests if these Amendments or a similar Amendment were accepted by him.

The work of the tribunals under the Bill when it becomes law will be of a vastly different character from the work of the tribunals under the 1946 Act. I have had some small measure of professional experience in the working of that Act and I have complete confidence in the general efficiency of the tribunals set up under it. The work of tribunals under that Act is essentially of a very limited character. Their findings are purely findings of fact and it is very rare that any issue of law arises. Quite the contrary will be the case if this Bill becomes law. Tribunals will frequently find themselves faced with substantial difficulties of interpretation and with ascertaining what is the law, in relation not merely to this Measure but to the entire law of rent restriction. No one but a chairman experienced in law could really administer, and appear to administer, justice fairly in relation to the operation of the provisions of the Bill.

The Court of Appeal—and, indeed, the House of Lords—have frequently put on record their inability to understand the Rent Restrictions Acts. No lawyer in this Committee would dare to suggest that he could really understand them in their entirety. Yet we are thrusting upon the chairmen of these tribunals, not the question as to what is a fair rent for furnished premises, but the sort of problems which the House of Lords, the Court of Appeal, the judges in the King's Bench Division on appeal and county court judges cannot decide. [Interruption.] I can understand my hon. Friends thinking I am exaggerating, but when these matters come before a tribunal, not only are questions of fact likely to be involved, but mixed questions of fact and law.

6.45 p.m.

It would be in the best interests of the public if the chairman of a tribunal were able properly to understand the issues involved in every case and to deal with them as an experienced lawyer would deal with them, that is to say, in accordance with the terms of the Statute and in accordance with the proper interpretation of the Statute. I make this appeal to my right hon. Friend, not as lawyer, or on the ground that lawyers ought to be given work, but on the sole basis that it would be in the best interests of the community and of the poorer classes of the community, the working classes, if the chairman had legal experience, because if that were so these people would have a square deal.

Mr. Bevan

May I ask the Committee to come to a decision? This is a perfectly simple point. Most of the tribunals have already been appointed and only a very small part of the country remains to be covered. I am not saying that in many of the important tribunals it is not necessary to have a lawyer as chairman. In fact, they do have such chairmen. I should have thought the Committee might leave it to me, might leave it to the administration, to see that in practice substantially what the Committee wishes to do is done, but not to make it a statutory obligation. Some of these tribunals in more remote districts do not want a lawyer as chairman and often a layman is quite as good as a lawyer.

I also point out to the Committee that it would gravely embarrass some of the lawyers if someone were taken out of the tribunal in order to appoint another chairman. They would be examining him to see if he were better than his predecessor. I think we might get on and not insist on the Amendment, but take it for granted that where the tribunals have substantial work to do substantial people are appointed.

Mr. Manningham-Buller (Daventry)

In view of what the right hon. Gentleman has said, I feel I should make a few observations at this stage, particuarly in consequence of the remarks made by the hon. Lady the Member for Coatbridge (Mrs. Mann). I do not know what I have done to call upon myself her hostile animadversion, but I shall take such steps as are within my power—

Mrs. Mann

rose—

Mr. Manningham-Buller

Allow me to finish the sentence—to seek to induce her to change her feeling about the absence of attraction in my hon. and learned Friends and myself. This matter goes deeper that the outward appearance of the tribunal. I am not quite clear, from what the right hon. hon. Gentleman said, whether he accepts in principle the desirability, in every case in which a vacancy occurs, of appointing someone legally qualified. His argument was, in the first place, that there was difficulty in finding lawyers. I should have thought that was not a very substantial difficulty, nor one which might not have been easily overcome.

He went on to argue in his later observations that it was not always desirable because, after all, these were fact-finding bodies. The right hon. Gentleman will recollect the pressure put upon the Secretary of State for War from time to time to secure the presence of a trained lawyer upon courts martial—in an advisory capacity it is true—which, in the vast majority of cases, are nothing but fact-finding bodies. He will also bear in mind that under the original Workmen's Compensation Acts provision was made for arbitration and there was the same argument that a lawyer was not necessary to decide and find the facts, but, as we all know, under those Acts the matter was dealt with by county court judges. I ask the right hon. Gentleman to give us the clearest possible assurance that he will spare no effort to find lawyers and will also appoint lawyers with these qualifications on every possible occasion.

Mr. Sparks

I have listened to what the Minister said upon this Amendment and I think his attitude is reasonable. He has accepted the principle and spirit of the Amendment and we have no right to impose upon him a measure which is impracticable administratively. I therefore beg to ask leave to withdraw the Amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The Temporary Chairman (Mr. Butcher)

I am calling the next Amendment, in page 6, line 43, but a discussion cannot be permitted on it.

Commander Galbraith

I beg to move, in page 6, line 43, at the end, to add: (6) The Schedule to the Act of 1946 shall, from such date as the Minister may by regulation appoint, have effect as though at the end of paragraph 1 there were added the words ' of whom at least one shall be a barrister or a solicitor of not less than seven years' standing.' While we regret it, we feel that the difference is so great between the 1946 Act and the present Bill that we ought so far as possible to insist on this Amendment receiving the consent of the Committee and, therefore, we shall have to divide the Committee.

Question put, "That those words be there added."

The Committee divided: Ayes, 116; Noes, 286.

Division No. 62.] AYES [6.54 p.m.
Amory, D. Heathcoat Eccles, D. M. Lennox-Boyd, A. T.
Assheton Rt. Hon. R Elliot, Lieut.-Col. Rt. Hon. Walter Lloyd, Selwyn (Wirral)
Barlow, Sir J. Erroll, F. J. Low, A. R W
Bennett, Sir P Fletcher, W.(Bury) Lucas-Tooth, Sir H
Birch, Nigel Fraser, H. C. P (Stone) Lyttelton, Rt Hon O
Boles, Lt.-Col. D. C. (Wells) Fraser, Sir I (Lonsdale.) MacAndrew, Col. Sir C
Boothby, R. Gage, C. McCallum, Maj D
Bower, N. Galbraith, Cmdr. T. D. (Pollok) Macdonald, Sir P (I of Wight)
Boyd-Carpenter, J A. Galbraith, T G D. (Hillhead) McFarlane, C S
Bracken, Rt. Hon. Brendan Gammans, L D Mackeson, Brig H R
Braithwaite, Lt.-Comdr. J. G Glyn, Sir R McKie, J. H (Galloway)
Bromley-Davenport, Lt.-Col. W. Gomme-Duncan, Col. A Maolay, Hon J. S
Buchan-Hepburn, P. G T. Granville, E (Eye) Maolean, F H. R. (Lancaster)
Bullock, Capt. M. Grimston, R V. Macm lan, Rt. Hn. Harold(Bromley)
Byers, Frank Hare, Hon. J. H. (Woodbridge) Macpherson, N. (Dumfries)
Carson, E. Harvey, Air-Comdre, A. V Maitland, Comdr J W
Challen, C Headlam, Lieut.-Col. Rt Hon. Sir C Manningham-Buller, R E.
Clarke, Col. R. S. Henderson, John (Cathcart) Marlowe, A A H
Clifton-Brown, Lt-Cot. G Herbert, Sir A. P Maude, J C
Corbett, Lieut.-Col. U (Ludlow) Hinchingbrooke, Viscount Mellor, Sir J
Crookshank, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. F. C. Hogg, Hon. Q. Molson, A H E
Crosthwaite-Eyre, Col. O. E Hutchison Lt.-Cdr Clark (Edin'gh, W) Morris-Jones, Sir H.
Darling, Sir W Y. Hutchison, Col J. R. (Glasgow, C.) Morrison, Maj J. G (Salisbury)
Davies Rt. Hn. Clement (Montgomery) Jarvis, Sir J. Morrison, Rt. Hon. W. S. (Cireneester)
De la Bere, R Jeffreys, General Sir G. Mott-Radclyffe, C. E.
Dodds-Parker, A. D. Jennings, R. Orr-Ewing. I L.
Dowor, Col. A. V. G. (Penrith) Keeling, E H. Osborne. C
Drayson, G. B. Lambert, Hon. G. Peto, Brig. C. H. M.
Drewe, C. Lancaster, Col. C. G Ponsonby, Col. C. E.
Poole, O. B. S. (Oswestry) Stoddart-Scott, Col. M. Ward, Hon. G. R.
Price-While, Lt.-Col. D. Strauss, Henry (English Universities) Wheatley, Colonel M. J. (Dorset, E.)
Rayner, Brig. R. Studholme, H. G. White, Sir D, (Fareham)
Roberts, H. (Handsworth) Sutcliffe, H. Williams, C. (Torquay)
Roberts, P. G. (Ecclesall) Taylor, C. S. (Eastbourne) Willoughby de Eresby, Lord
Robinson, Roland Taylor, Vice-Adm. E. A. (P'dd't'n, S.) Winterton, Rt Hon. Earl
Scott, Lord W. Teeling, William Young, Sir A. S. L. (Partick)
Shepherd, W. S. (Bucklow) Thomas, Ivor (Keighley)
Smiles, Lt.-Col. Sir W. Thornton-Kemsley, C. N TELLERS FOR THE AYES:
Spearman, A. C. M. Wadsworth, G. Major Conant and
Stanley, Rt. Hon. O. Walker-Smith, D. Mr. Wingfield Digby.
NOES
Adams, Richard (Batham) Fernyhough, E. Lipson, D. L.
Albu, A. H. Field, Capt. W. J. Lipton, Lt.-Col. M
Allen, A. C. (Bosworth) Fletcher, E. G. M. (Islington, E.) Logan, D G.
Alpass, J. H. Follick, M. Longdon, F.
Anderson, A. (Motherwell) Foot, M. M. Lyne, A W.
Anderson, F. (Whitehaven) Forman, J. C. McAdam, W.
Attewell, H. C Fraser, T. (Hamilton) McAllister, G.
Attlee, Rt. Hon. C. R. Freeman, J. (Watford) McEntee, V. La T.
Austin, H. Lewis Freeman, Peter (Newport) McGhee, H. G
Ayles, W. H. Ganley, Mrs. C. S McGovern, J.
Ayrton Gould, Mrs. B Gibbins, J. Mack, J. D.
Bacon, Miss A. Gibson, C. W. McKay, J. (Wallsend)
Balfour, A. Gilzean, A. McKinlay, A. S.
Barstow, P. G. Glanville, J. E (Consett) Maclean, N (Govan)
Barton, C. Grey, C. F. McLeavy, F.
Battley, J. R. Grierson, E. MacPherson, Malcolm (Stirling)
Bechervaise, A. E. Griffiths, D. (Rother Valley) Mainwaring, W H.
Benson, G. Griffiths, Rt. Hon. J. (Llanelly) Mallalieu, E. L. (Brigg)
Berry, H. Griffiths, W. D. (Moss Side) Mallalieu, J. P. W. (Huddersfield)
Beswick, F. Gunter, R. J Mann, Mrs. J.
Bevan, Rt. Han. A. (Ebbw Vale) Guy. W. H. Manning, Mrs. L. (Epping)
Bing, G. H. C. Haire, John E. (Wycombe) Mathers, Rt. Hon. George
Binns, J. Hale, Leslie Medland, H. M
Blackburn, A. R. Hall, Rt. Hon. Glenvil Mellish, R. J.
Blenkinsop, A. Hamilton, Lieut.-Col. R. Messer, F.
Boardman, H. Hardy, E. A. Middleton, Mrs. L.
Braddock, Mrs. E. M. (L'pl. Exch'ge) Harrison, J. Mikardo, lan
Brook, D. (Halifax) Hastings, Dr. Somerville Millington, Wing-Comdr. E. R
Brooks, T. J. (Rothwell) Haworth, J. Mitchison, G. R.
Brown, T. J. (Ince) Henderson, Rt. Hn. A. (Kingswinford) Monslow, W.
Bruce, Maj. D. W. T. Hewitson, Capt. M. Moody, A. S
Burden, T. W. Hicks, C. Morgan, Dr. H. B.
Burke, W. A. Hobson, C. R. Morley, R
Butler, H. W. (Hackney, S.) Holman, P. Morris, Lt.-Col. H. (Sheffield, C.)
Carmichael, James Holmes, H. E. (Hemsworth) Morris, P. (Swansea, W.)
Castle, Mrs. B. A. Horabin, T. L. Mort, D. L.
Champion, A. J. Hoy, J. Moyle, A.
Chetwynd, G. R. Hubbard, T. Murray, J. D.
Cobb, F. A. Hughes, Emrys (S. Ayr) Naylor, T. E.
Cocks, F. S. Hughes, Hector (Aberdeen, N.) Nichol, Mrs. M. E. (Bradford, N.)
Coldrick, W. Hughes, H. D. (W'lverh'pton, W.) Oliver, G. H.
Collick, P. Hynd, H. (Hackney, C.) Paget, R. T.
Collindridge, F. Hynd, J. B. (Attercliffe) Paling, Rt. Hon. Wilfred (Wentworth)
Colman, Miss G. M. Irving, W J. (Tottenham, N.) Paling, W. T. (Dewsbury)
Cooper, G. Isaacs, Rt Hon. G. A. Palmer, A. M. F.
Corbet, Mrs. F. K. (Camb'well, N. W.) Janner, B. Parker, J.
Corlett, Dr. J. Jay, D. P. T. Parkin, B. T.
Cove, W. G. Jeger, G. (Winchester) Paton, Mrs. F. (Rushcliffe.)
Crawley, A. Jeger, Dr. S. W (St. Pancras, S. E,) Paton, J. (Norwich)
Cullen, Miss Jenkins, R. H Pearson, A.
Daggar, G. Johnston, Douglas Peart, T. F.
Daines, P Jones, Rt. Hon. A. C. (Shipley) Piratin, P.
Davies, Edward (Burslem) Jones, Jack (Bolton) Poole, Cecil (Lichfield)
Davies, Haydn (St. Pancras, S. W.) Jones, P. Asterley (Hitchin) Popplewell, E.
Davies, R. J. (Westhoughton) Keenan, W. Porter, E. (Warrington)
Davies, S. D. (Merthyr) Kenyon, C. Porter, G. (Leeds)
Deer, G. King, E. M. Proctor, W. T.
Delargy, H. J. Kinghorn, Sqn.-Ldr. E. Pryde, D. J
Diamond, J Kinley, J. Pursey, Comdr. H.
Dodds, N. N. Kirby, B. V. Randall, H. E,
Driberg, T. E. N. Kirkwood, Rt. Hon. D. Ranger, J.
Dumpleton, C. W. Lang, G. Rankin, J.
Ede, Rt. Hon. J. C. Lavers, S. Rees-Williams, D. R.
Edwards, John (Blackburn) Lee, F. (Hulme) Reeves, J.
Edwards, Rt. Hon. N. (Caerphilly) Lee, Miss J. (Cannock) Reid, T. (Swindon)
Edwards, W. J. (Whitechapel) Leonard, W. Rhodes, H.
Evans, Albert (Islington, W.) Leslie, J. R. Richards, R.
Evans, E. (Lowestoft) Levy, B. W. Ridealgh, Mrs. M.
Evans, S. N. (Wednesbury) Lewis, A. W. J. (Upton) Roberts, Goronwy (Caernarvonshire)
Ewart, R. Lewis, J. (Bolton) Robertson, J. J. (Berwick)
Fairhurst, F. Lindgren, G. S. Rogers, G. H. R.
Ross, William (Kilmarnock) Stross, Dr. B. Weitzman, D.
Royle, C. Stubbs, A. E Wells, P. L. (Faversham)
Sargood, R Swingler, S. Wells, W T (Walsall)
Scollan, T. Sylvester, G. O. West, D G.
Scott-Elliot, W. Symonds, A. L. Wheatley, Rt. Hn John (Edinb'gh, E.)
Segal, Dr. S. Taylor, R J. (Morpeth) White, H. (Derbyshire, N. E.)
Shacklelon, E. A. A Taylor, Dr. S. (Barnet) Whiteley, Rt Hon W
Sharp, Granville Thomas, D. E. (Aberdare) Wigg, George
Shawcross, Rt. Hn. Sir H. (St. Helens) Thomas, George (Cardiff) Wilcock, Group-Capt C. A B.
Shurmer, P. Thomas, John R. (Dover) Wilkins, W. A.
Silverman, J. (Erdington) Thorneycroft, Harry (Clayton) Willey, F. T. (Sunderland)
Silverman, S. S (Nelson) Thurtle, Ernest Willey, O. G. (Cleveland)
Simmons, C J Timmons, J Williams, J. L. (Kelvingrove)
Skeffington, A. M. Titterington, M F Williams, Ronald (Wigan)
Skinnard, F. W Tolley, L. Williams, Rt. Hon. T. (Don Valley)
Smith, H. N. (Nottingham, S.) Tomlinson, Rt. Hon. G. Williams, W. R. (Heston)
Smith, S. H. (Hull, S. W.) Turner-Samuels, M. Willis, E.
Snow, J. W. Ungoed-Thomas, L. Wills, Mrs. E. A.
Solley, L. J. Viant, S. P. Woods, G. S.
Sorensen, R. W. Walkden, E. Vales, V. F.
Soskice, Rt. Hon. Sir Frank Walker, G. H. Young, Sir R. (Newton)
Sparks, J. A. Wallace, G D. (Chislehurst) Younger, Hon. Kenneth
Stamford, W. Warbey, W. N.
Steele, T. Watkins, T. E. TELLERS FOR THE NOES:
Stewart, Michael (Fulham, E.) Watson, W. M. Mr. Hannan and Mr. Bowden.
Strauss, Rt. Hon. G. R. (Lambeth) Webb, M. (Bradford, C)

Clause ordered to stand part of the Bill.