HC Deb 12 May 1948 vol 450 cc2139-41

Lords Amendment: In page 56, line 13, after "chairman," insert:" or other appointed member."

Mr. Steele

I beg to move, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."

The Schedule here provides that chairmen of tribunals and panels of workpeople shall continue in office for the purpose of the new tribunals until the Minister makes other nominations. The Amendment, and one which follows in similar terms to line 16, are designed to secure that the remaining members of the existing tribunals who were appointed by the Board to represent the Board shall act as additional appointees of the Minister on the new tribunals until my right hon. Friend makes the other appointments. I think the House will readily understand that, owing to the shortage of time between now and the appointed day, my right hon. Friend does not feel able to make the necessary appointments before that day. He therefore wants to use this method until he has sufficient time to make new appointments with the necessary care.

Lieut.-Colonel Elliot

The practical step of making a clean cut, which was desired by the Committee, is perhaps being pressed a little far. Nevertheless, the change-over will require a certain amount of shading from the old into the new. We may take it that the Act will be administered with charity and kindness and that the decision of the Minister in this regard will be welcomed by the people chiefly concerned.

Question put, and agreed to.

Lords Amendment: In page 60, line 40, to leave out from "in," to "shall" in line 44, and insert: the lunatic ward of a poorhouse within the meaning of the said Act, and the poorhouse as a whole was mainly being used for purpose other than hospital purposes. (i) the ward

Mr. Robertson

I beg to move, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."

Paragraphs 7 and 9 of this Schedule provide that a poorhouse in which provision is made for the sick shall go over to the regional hospital board or shall remain with the local authority, according to whether the poorhouse is mainly used for hospital purposes or not. Some of the poorhouses contain wards specially licensed for the accommodation of lunatics. The question in determining if a poorhouse is mainly used for hospital purposes, has been whether such licensed wards are used for such purposes. Doubt arises because the Lunacy (Scotland) Act, 1862, authorises the licensing of those wards only for the accommodation of lunatics who do not require curative treatment, while "hospital purposes" is defined in the Schedule as the provision of medical treatment. The Amendment is designed to remove the doubt which exists, and it is consequential upon the Amendment which follows it on the Paper.

Lieut.-Colonel Elliot

In Scotland, emphasis has generally been laid on the curative treatment of lunacy. Our laws differ in some most important respects from those of England. I understand that the provisions now being discussed are intended to preserve that difference and to remove a doubt referred to by the Joint Under-Secretary of State for Scotland. We have also an example before us of how a consequential Amendment can come before the matter to which it is the consequence. In these days, when Time is regarded as only a mode of thought we must get accustomed to consequences coming before the facts. It is a somewhat remarkable case and I thought it desirable that some notice should be taken of it, if not upon the Journal of the House, then in our Official Report.

Question put, and agreed to.