Teachers (Emergency Training)

HC Deb 15 July 1948 vol 453 cc1379-83

14. Sir W. Smithers

asked the Minister of Education what obligations he is under to the approximately 10,000 male teacher students whose training has been deferred; whether it is proposed to pay them compensation for the loss which they will incur from the delay; and how long it is expected to last.

15. Mr. Eric Fletcher

asked the Minister of Education what is now the approximate average interval between the acceptance of a trainee school teacher and his admission to a training college.

Mr. Tomlinson

I have undertaken to offer these men places in emergency colleges if they are willing to await their turn. The estimated waiting period for men varies from a minimum of about two years to a maximum of about three, according to a man's date of entry on to the waiting list and his type of previous service, but in no case extends beyond the Autumn of 1950. I appreciate that this will cause much disappointment and some hardship in individual cases, but I cannot agree that there is any case for compensation. The waiting period for women varies from a few weeks to a few months according to the type of training which the candidate needs.

Sir W. Smithers

Is not this another example of the failure of Socialist planning—[HON. MEMBERS: "Hear, hear"]—to face the facts—[HON. MEMBERS: "Hear, hear"]—and of raising false hopes which they cannot implement? [HON. MEMBERS: "Hear hear."]

Mr. Tomlinson

No, Sir. [Laughter.] I hope this question will not be treated as one that can be dealt with lightly. [HON. MEMBERS: "Hear, hear."] Yes, I mean that for both sides of the House. It is a question which relates to the present position of men who were recruited immediately after the war, as ex-Service men in the main. Something like 100,000 applications were received, 54 colleges have been established in which to train them, and it is obvious that in the best of circumstances, with all the planning and all the will, there would have been a long waiting period. There is an extension now in some cases of from six to nine months in the waiting period due entirely to the fact that we are called upon to produce more women teachers of infants because of the rise in the birth rate. In those circumstances I think I am entitled to ask for the assistance of the House in connection with what is a difficult problem.

Mr. Fletcher

While appreciating entirely the Minister's difficulties in this matter, may I ask him if he will give an assurance that no further men's colleges will be closed until these men have been absorbed, and that if, as a result of some having been closed down, for example, in the London area, they have to go to the provinces to train, their claim for compensation on hardship grounds will be considered?

Mr. Tomlinson

I will certainly consider that, and I would not like to see any college closed while we are extending the period.

Mr. Jennings

Certainly it is a difficult position that has arisen for these students, but could not some of them have been discouraged some time ago, so that they would not have been in this position of disappointment today?

Mr. Tomlinson

I do not think there is a position of disappointment. [HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."] The disappointment arises from the fact that in any circumstances they would have been called upon to wait a minimum period of two years, but the fact that we need these men eventually, I think, justifies going out for them in the first instance.

Mrs. Manning

In view of the fact that we might have foreseen the rise in the birth rate immediately after a war, and so have redressed the balance as between the men and women we recruited, will not my right hon. Friend now see whether these young men could not take advantage of what is known as school based training so that they might become fully qualified, and thus take up this big surplus?

Mr. Tomlinson

I do not think that would assist in the solution of this problem. Only some 450 men's places have been turned over to women, so that is an indication of the size of the problem with which we are dealing.

Mr. Assheton

Is it not possible that some of these men might receive a somewhat fuller training in the new circumstances than would have been available otherwise?

Mr. Tomlinson

In many instances, but not in all. Men have taken the two years' training course rather than wait for the one year emergency training course, but that affects comparatively few.

Mr. G. Thomas

Is my right hon. Friend aware that hundreds of these students are at present engaged as teacher trainees earning £5 a week and have the full duties of a teacher in the Metropolitan area? Will he, in view of the extended delay, consider giving them a higher recognition of their work?

Mr. Tomlinson

There is another question on the Paper dealing with that subject.

16. Mr. E. Fletcher

asked the Minister of Education how many trainee school teachers who have been accepted for training are now awaiting admission to an emergency training college.

Mr. Tomlinson

The number of candidates who have been accepted for training but not yet offered a place in a college was 10,691 on 8th July. Of these, 8,430 were ex-Service men, 1,309 civilian men, 85 ex-Service women and 867 civilian women.

17. Mr. E. Fletcher

asked the Minister of Education whether he proposes to take any steps to improve the remuneration of trainee school teachers actually engaged in teaching while awaiting entry to an emergency training college.

Mr. Tomlinson

All questions relating to the salaries of teachers in maintained schools are matters in the first instance for the Burnham Committee. In the scales which came into effect on 1st April last, the maxima for temporary teachers employed in that capacity prior to entering on an emergency training course were increased from £228 to £300 per annum in the case of men, and from £198 to £270 in the case of women.

Mr. Fletcher

Does not the lengthening of the waiting period mean that a great many of these men will, perhaps for nearly three years, be doing the same work as fully qualified teachers and sharing the same responsibilities, and should not their remuneration, therefore, be reconsidered in the light of these altered circumstances?

Mr. Tomlinson

All these things were taken into consideration by the Burnham Committee when this recommendation was made, and I would point out that they will become qualified teachers with 12 months' training, as against the two to four years' training which is normal in the case of teachers.

Mr. Berry

Will my right hon. Friend take into account the well known principle of the rate for the job instead of the situation as it is at the present time?

Mr. Tomlinson

Yes, but I think we need also to keep in mind that qualifications are asked for in determining the rate.

Mr. Gallacher

Is the Minister aware that the engineers will get very jealous of the teachers because of the good representation the teachers get in this House?

Mrs. Manning

Hear, hear.

Mr. G. Thomas

Is my right hon. Friend aware that there is no hope of any increase of salary for these men, many of whom are married, and who are receiving £5 a week for doing exactly the same work or, at least, having exactly the same responsibilities as a qualified teacher?