CLAUSE 7—(Appointed factory doctors.) (Hansard, 9 July 1948)

§ Mr. Attewell (Harborough)
I wish to say a few words on this Clause, and I do so in the full knowledge that this Bill is not an attempt to amend the law in the fullest sense as, perhaps, we would wish. This Clause, which allows the factory doctor to act in his old capacity as the examining surgeon, is open to certain objections. I know that with the passing of the new Industrial Injuries Act the same temptation for a doctor to be biased in his decision is not present; nevertheless, the operative in the factory should be convinced that whenever he desires to appeal to a medical examiner as to whether his complaint is caused by his industrial operation, the decision will be in accordance with the facts as that medical examiner sees them.
This Clause enables the doctor, who may have certain wide interests in a firm, apart from the day to day work of the factory, to act not only as the factory doctor but also to examine the work-people for day to day ailments or injuries. An operative in such a factory may get a skin disease such as dermatitis. It may be certified by his own medical practitioner as dermatitis, but it may be objected that it is not caused by his work. I agree I am on dangerous ground here because of the alteration in the law, and perhaps dermatitis is not an apt illustration. However, I want to make the point that the man may feel he has a complaint which will give him a right of appeal to a civil court as being something that ought not to be present in that factory; his own doctor may certify that he is suffering from a given complaint, and the doctor who normally examines the people in the factory, who has a business connection with the firm, may be appointed factory doctor under this Clause.
Therefore, when the man makes his appeal he finds he is going to a doctor not only closely connected with the firm 733 on business grounds, but also operating there from day to day. That doctor could, by his advice to the firm, inform the firm whether certain operations may be dangerous in so far as certain spirits used for cleansing the materials could cause such a disease. I submit that it is dangerous to allow this to take place, and if it is at all possible to prevent it by future legislation or by regulation, it should be made impossible for the men inside the factory to feel that justice is not being done.

§ Mr. Piratin (Mile End)
I should like to support the point raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Harborough (Mr. Attewell) and to call the attention of the Minister to the remarks which he made on the Second Reading of this Bill last week. He quoted then what he said in opening the Debate a few weeks ago, as follows: it is thought that the firm's doctor would be less likely to give a certificate that it is an industrial disease arising out of the man's employment, whereas an outside doctor might give a certificate to that effect. There is that doubt, and we are anxious to discuss all the possibilities in this direction. I give a complete undertaking to examine with the most meticulous care any Amendments which may be brought forward on this subject."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 11th June, 1948; Vol. 451, c. 2767–8.] On the Second Reading the hon. Member for Rochdale (Dr. Morgan) raised matters relating to this point, and I had hoped that Amendments would have been put down on the Committee stage. Certainly the Minister last week was most amenable to receiving any such Amendments and giving them his consideration. No one can, of course, blame the Minister if Amendments have not been put down for his consideration, but would he look into the matter with an eye to the points made by the hon. Member for Rochdale last week and by the hon. Member for Harborough today, and see whether, on the Report stage, he cannot introduce some Clause which would help to relieve the fears of hon. Members on this side, and elsewhere no doubt, who are worried about this matter? The Minister would render great service if he would do that because, although no Amendments have been put down, the desire is obviously there.

§ Mr. Isaacs
The hon. Member for Mile End (Mr. Piratin) quite rightly reminded 734 me of the comments I made on the Second Reading, when I said that we should be glad to consider any Amendments that were put down. None have been put down but, all the same, we have been looking carefully at this Clause. We are satisfied, that, with the coming into operation of the new Industrial Injuries Act, a great many of the possible dangers—I only say "possible dangers"—will have disappeared. I am satisfied that the charge cannot be made against the profession that doctors give certificates against their opinion. I am sure that whatever certificates they give, are given honestly and conscientiously, thinking them to be correct.
However, there always has been some little suspicion about this. Most of that will disappear under the new Act, but we are asking for this step to be taken because there has grown up in industry a widespread desire for a comprehensive medical service inside the factories. As a result many large firms located in areas which are not centres of population have themselves appointed a local medical man as their medical adviser. That medical man in those works has obtained a wide knowledge of the operations in that factory so that, when we come to appoint a factory doctor, that man is the best man in the area for the job and so we want to use him. On the other hand, we feel that if we see this developing on the initiative of employers who are anxious to have proper medical care in their factories, it is a good step towards what will ultimately come into operation in this and other countries—and, I think, in this country first—a real industrial medical service.
I can promise both my hon. Friends that I understand the feelings and doubts in their minds. It is no good my saying otherwise, because I have been one of those who have had to give voice to those doubts in the past. We shall watch this matter with care, we shall certainly have to draw up regulations about the appointments, we shall see that every possible care is taken to avoid misunderstanding, and it may be that we can meet the point which the hon. Member for Rochdale (Dr. Morgan) referred to last week. Where it is necessary for a certificate to be given under any of the Acts by the factory doctor, we shall see whether we cannot make arrangements whereby 735 another opinion, other than that of the person directly concerned, is brought into the picture. I hope that, with the promise that we are aware of these problems, my hon. Friends will be satisfied that they are being carefully looked after.