HC Deb 22 January 1948 vol 446 cc366-8
40. Mr. David Renton

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power whether he is aware that regional petroleum officers have become de facto licensing authorities for taxis, hackney carriages and private hire cars outside the Metropolitan area; whether it is their practice to hear evidence of public need for such services, and to hear representations for or against the grant of petrol enabling such services to be run; whether he is aware that the refusal by regional petroleum officers to grant applications for petrol for private hire services in rural areas is causing much hardship and inconvenience; and whether he will make a statement.

Mr. Gaitskell

Licences from the local authority are required for the operation of taxicabs outside the Metropolitan area and petrol is issued automatically in these cases. The question whether petrol can be issued for a hire car or hackney carriage which does not require a local authority licence, depends in general on whether or not the existing hire car facilities are sufficient for the needs of the public in the district concerned. This is decided by the regional petroleum officer on the advice of the local police. If the hon. Member has in mind any particular case of difficulty, however, I shall be glad to look into it.

Mr. Renton

Is the Minister aware that it is not a question of a particular case of difficulty, but that it is a general fact that the regional petroleum officers are granting and refusing these licences without an adequate knowledge of the locality, and will he take steps to bring this rough and ready method to an end, and get some sanction of Parliament behind this de facto licensing system?

Mr. Gaitskell

I have already explained that the decisions of the regional petroleum officers are taken on the advice of the local police, and I am satisfied that they are in the best position to advise the Ministry.

Mr. Godfrey Nicholson

Is the right hon. Gentleman seriously saying that the local police are deciding how much the applicants shall be granted?

Mr. Gaitskell

No, I said that they were in the best position to advise on the needs of the area—[HON MEMBERS: "Why?"]—because they are most familiar with the transport conditions.

Mr. Butcher

Are we to understand from the Minister's reply that a man is deprived of his right to carry on his business by the decision of one regional petroleum officer based on a police report?

Mr. Gaitskell

In every case, it is naturally very difficult to reach a decision. I am being continually pressed by hon. Members to restrict the activities of hire cars, and I assume it is agreed that it is desirable to license them only in that sense and not to give them all the petrol they need. The decision on this matter has to be taken locally, and is taken on the best local advice, that of the police.

Captain Crookshank

Are the Government to look for advice on administrative matters from the police and no one else?

Mr. Gaitskell

It is simply that the police are in the best position to advise in this matter. Nobody has suggested anyone else who would give us better advice.

Captain Crookshank

Then we are drifting into a Police State.

Mr. Sydney Silverman

Can my right hon. Friend say whether it has not always been the practice that the licensing of taxicabs has been in the hands of the police authorities?

Mr. Gaitskell

I may also say it has always been the case that the advice of the police has been sought on this particular matter under the Coalition Government.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

Are these applicants permitted to see and comment on the reports made by the local police?

Mr. Renton

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment.