Herr Werner Kleindienst (Interrogation)

HC Deb 24 February 1948 vol 447 cc1751-3

20. Mr. Driberg

asked the Secretary of State for War if he has completed his inquiries into the beating-up of Herr Werner Kleindienst; and if he will now state what disciplinary action was taken against the British officer and N.C.O.s involved, and publish in HANSARD a full account of the incident.

22. Mr. Benn Levy

asked the Secretary of State for War if he will now disclose the nature of the punishment meted to the officer responsible for the maltreatment of Herr Kleindienst.

Mr. Shinwell

After considering this matter further I have come to the conclusion that the conduct of the British officer and non-commissioned officers involved in this incident was improper and unworthy of the British Army. On the other hand, I am satisfied that there has been some exaggeration in reports of the ill-treatment alleged to have been suffered by this German. As the officer and non-commissioned officers concerned have been reprimanded and transferred to other duties, or in one case released from the Army, I consider that the interests of the British Forces in Germany will now best be served by regarding the incident as closed.

Mr. Driberg

Could my right hon. Friend say in what respect the very detailed reports which he has been given were exaggerated? Was this man in fact beaten up, and did the interrogation take place from 2.30 in the morning until about five o'clock in the morning?

Mr. Shinwell

I have gone very carefully into the matter and undoubtedly there was some ill-treatment, but there is a great deal of conflicting evidence and I prefer to accept the judgment of the officers who were concerned in trying this case.

Mr. Levy

In view of the allegations which have been made in all good faith not only by my hon. Friend the Member for Maldon (Mr. Driberg), but also by myself, and which have had some publicity, will my right hon. Friend, in the interests of the officers themselves, publish an account of what in fact took place?

Mr. Shinwell

I think not. On the whole, I think the action we have taken will be salutary.

Mr. Vane

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that a reprimand is really no punishment at all except to men making their careers in the Army, and in the light of all the circumstances of the case, does he not think that he should go further into it and consider instituting court martial proceedings?

Mr. Shinwell

Again, I think not. A reprimand is a very serious matter to be entered in an officer's record which may have to be used on some other occasion. I think the action we have taken is, on the whole, beneficial.

Mr. Stokes

Is my right hon. Friend aware that there is no secrecy about these matters on the other side of the water, and that if he will not publish the facts, all that will happen is that the reports will become greatly enlarged? Is it not much better that the truth, and the whole truth, should be given?

Mr. Shinwell

But the facts have been disclosed without going into unnecessary details.

Mr. Stokes

Not widely.

Mr. Shinwell

Apparently my hon. Friend knows all about the facts. As the answer I gave concedes, we have admitted that the conduct of this officer and these non-commissioned officers was unworthy of the British Army. I have admitted that there was some ill-treatment, and it seems unnecessary to go further.

Mr. Driberg

In order to give my right hon. Friend an opportunity of stating exactly in what respect the reports were exaggerated, I beg to give notice that I shall raise this matter on the Motion for the Adjournment.