HC Deb 20 February 1948 vol 447 cc1567-76

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That this House do now adjourn."—[Mr. Snow.]

4.1 p.m.

Mr. Bramall (Bexley) rose—

Major Tufton Beamish (Lewes)

On a point of Order. I am not sure in what way the War Office can be responsible for the subject to be raised on this Adjournment Motion, as these are private funds. Would it also be in Order, Mr. Speaker, to discuss, for instance, the welfare funds of the Royal Artillery, or some other such private funds?

Mr. Speaker

I shall find out when the Secretary of State for War replies whether this matter is a War Office responsibility.

Mr. Bramall

I had this point in mind, and I hope that I shall be able to make the matter clear in the course of my remarks. I want to put before the House certain facts in my possession with regard to the disposal of certain welfare and administrative funds of the Polish Army, and also certain properties of the Polish Army and Polish State. As I understand the situation, these come under the control of the War Office through the Polish Resettlement Act. I find the facts rather disquieting, and I should be glad if the Under-Secretary can take this opportunity to arrest that disquiet, which the Secretary of State for War and his predecessor have so far failed to do. I put a Question on this subject on 16th December, 1947. I asked: What sums were deducted from the pay of members of the Polish Army during the war for welfare purposes; what use had subsequently been made of the welfare funds so built up; who now controls these funds; and what is the amount of such funds."[OFFICIAL REPORT, 16th December, 1947, Vol. 445, C. 306.] I regard these as plain questions of fact which could be easily ascertainable. I was referred to a previous answer to a Question put by the hon. Member for Mile End (Mr. Piratin) on 29th July. He asked what was going to happen to these funds? It is understandable that the Minister might not be able to answer that part of the Question. But the hon. Member also asked what was the amount of the funds, and whether any sums had been allocated to those Poles who had returned to Poland. It was somewhat surprising that the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Basset-law (Mr. Bellenger), who was then Secretary of State for War, was not in a position to make any statement on that matter. A subsequent Question was asked about a week ago, and my right hon. Friend said that further difficulties had arisen in connection with these funds, and that they might be the subject of legal proceedings. He also regretted that he was not in a position to make a statement. He did not say that they were the subject of legal proceedings, or that the matter was sub judice, so that would not be the reason for not answering the Question. I hope to hear tonight that the Minister is initiating some legal proceedings to recover the position which, I believe, has been prejudiced by the Polish Forces.

The responsibility of my right hon. Friend has been questioned by the hon. and gallant Gentleman the Member for Lewes (Major Beamish). The position is that the Polish units in the Resettlement Corps are clearly units of the British Army. The Resettlement Corps was set up as a part of the British Army, and its units have had no other existence than as units of the British Army. Units of the Polish Army were under the control of the British War Office. For a very long time they had no legal existence in this country, except through the fact that they were under the orders of the War Office, and since then, by Section 9 of the Polish Resettlement Act, 1947, they have been commanded by a British officer not below the rank of major-general—the Administrator of the Polish Forces. Certainly, since the Polish Resettlement Act these Forces have been under the control of the British Government.

The property I want to refer to is of three kinds. First, welfare funds, which were built up by deductions from the pay of the Polish troops; second, unit funds, which were built up in the ordinary way by profits from N.A.A.F.I. and entertainments, and which were used for sport and other kinds of recreation; third, certain movable property which was either brought over from Poland or France at the beginning of the war, or was manufactured in Polish Army workshops, or was given to the Polish Forces as a gift. What the total amount of the funds in money is I do not know, but I do know that the funds of the Armoured Division in Germany alone amounted to £200,000. An inventory was made of the property in July, 1945, and the valuation then put upon it, on the basis of the prewar value, less 50 per cent. for depreciation, was £129,000. I am sure I shall have the whole House with me in saying that these funds should be used for the benefit of the Polish soldiers for whom they were collected. I may not carry the whole House with me when I say that the property is property which belongs to the Polish State, and should be returned to the Polish Government.

Major Beamish

What property should be returned to the Polish Government?

Mr. Bramall

I have mentioned certain movable property—Polish State property.

Major Beamish

What sort of property —rifles or tanks or what?

Mr. Bramall

Not military equipment. Military equipment for the Polish Forces was provided by this country.

Major Beamish

What is it?

Mr. Bramall

It may be various kinds of things—furniture and utensils. I have a document here which gives a list of such things: tools, machinery and furniture are three of the things mentioned in it.

To return to the first proposition—the use of the funds concerned for the benefit of the soldiers for whom they were collected. This has become more difficult as the Polish soldiers concerned have been dispersed throughout the world. Some 237,000 Polish Forces have, at one time or another, passed through British hands according to the Report of the Select Committee on Estimates. The numbers who came to this country and the numbers who returned to Poland are about equal. About 108,000 have returned to Poland and about 114,000 have come to this country. I think that Members in all parts of the House will agree that these soldiers, whether they have come to this country or whether they have returned to Poland, have an equal right to benefit from the funds which they have subscribed. It is a fair proposition to suggest that these funds should be divided in proportion to the numbers who have gone to Poland and the numbers who have come to this country; and the amounts handed over to the Polish Government in order that they may be used for the benefit of those who have gone to Poland, and to the British Government who are responsible for those who are in this country.

Mr. Blackburn (Birmingham, King's Norton)

While agreeing with that in principle, surely it raises an unwarranted assumption that the Polish Government, who are very hostile indeed to Britain and to anyone who has ever fought with Britain, would provide this sum of money for the benefit of the soldiers who returned?

Mr. Bramall

We are not asking them to assist Britons but Poles. It is a principle accepted in the Polish Resettlement Act by this House that the responsibility for those Poles who return to Poland lies on the Polish Government. We cannot have it both ways. We cannot say in the Polish Resettlement Act that responsibility rests on the Polish Government, and then, when it comes to dealing with some of the money to assist those people, say, "We will not give it to the Polish Government because we cannot regard them as being responsible for looking after these people." We must accept the principle that when the soldiers return to Poland, it is up to the Polish Government to look after them, and that the Polish Government have a right to these funds set aside for their welfare. That principle has been accepted by the War Office and put into operation in the case of the funds accumulated by the Polish Forces in Italy. Division of those funds was made, and £47,000, the amount representing the number of Poles from Italy who returned to Poland, was handed over to the Polish Government.

The second principle, which is so repugnant to the hon. and gallant Member for Lewes, so far as Polish property is concerned, has been accepted in part, in so far as the Polish Geographical Institute has been recognised as Polish State property and handed over to the Polish Government. Since then—the summer of 1947—nothing has been done officially. As I have traced in the Questions asked, no statement has been made by the representatives of the War Office in this House, although they were pressed on three occasions to do so. Unfortunately, during that period and before that period a great deal of unofficial activity was going on, directed to securing that these funds and this property should disappear as quickly as possible out of the jurisdiction of the War Office. The first record which I have of this process, all of which has taken the form of handing over these funds and properties to the Polish Combatants Association, an unofficial body not under the control of the War Office, is on 30th August, 1946, when the Polish Chief of Staff issued an order to the effect that all funds of units of the Polish Army were to be handed over to the Polish Combatants Association. The date of 30th August has a significance because it was a fortnight before the date of recruiting for the Polish Resettlement Corps. Clearly, the intention was to dispose of this fund before these Polish units came under the control of the War Office. I have a series of translations of letters passed from higher formations to lower formations of the Polish Army. One is dated 30th September, 1946, from General Maczek, in which it is pointed out that the transfer of funds is to take place. simultaneously with the transfer of the military units to the Polish Resettlement Corps, and that the transfer constitutes a formal and definitive cession of the property rights to these funds. There is another letter of 11th October, 1946, dealing with the transfer of certain shops and stores to the Polish Combatants Association and also their fund, and it ends significantly by saying: The amounts transferred to the Polish Combatants Association must be booked only in the cash books of the shops or canteens; they should not appear in any other books, as for instance in the books dealing with the Regimental Funds. Clearly it is intended that this transfer should, if possible, be kept from the British authorities who were taking over the unit.

Early in the summer of 1947 orders were given to the financial authorities of the Polish Division in Germany to transfer a large sum of money, amounting to some £200,000. In that case the British Authorities were informed by the finance officer of the Division. The final letter of this type to which I should like to refer is one of May, 1947, by the chief of the Finance Branch of the Polish First Corps to the Polish Combatants Association stating that certain funds were being handed over to them. The date on which it is written, 28th May, 1947, is significant because that is after the date-27th March, 1947—when the Polish Resettlement Act received the Royal Assent. That deals with the point raised by the hon. and gallant Member for Lewes.

The same type of activity was taking place with regard to movable property, and there is an interesting communication—which I have here—in which all the units are urged to get rid of this property down to the very last button. They are urged to do so on the understanding that the British authorities would provide them with any tools they require for the last few days to tide them over the time until they get into the Polish Resettle- ment Corps. The end of the process was recorded in "The White Eagle" of last Saturday, when it was stated that the Welfare Fund Association of the Polish Second Corps had folded up because there were no more funds to administer owing to the transfer to the Polish Combatants Association.

There was an interesting general meeting of this Welfare Fund which accepted the report of the chairman's committee by a majority of three out of a meeting of 16 delegates. That may be regarded as a welcome sign of democracy, although in the more democratic societies one would expect a greater degree of unanimity in accepting financial reports of this type. It is quite clear that there has been a deliberate diversion of funds to prevent, in the first place, any of them going into the hands of the Polish Government, and, further, to prevent any benefit being derived from them by the 50 per cent. of the Polish troops who have returned to Poland. As far as the other 50 per cent. is concerned, these moves are to prevent the funds getting into the hands of the British Government, and I consider that the British Government could make extremely good use of them. I do not have to point out to the House the large amount of expenditure which is being incurred by this country on behalf of the Poles. The report of the Select Committee on Estimates makes it very clear that a very large amount of money was put into the Estimates last year and has been expended on the Poles.

Mr. A. R. W. Low (Blackpool North) rose—

Mr. Bramall

No, I cannot give way, I have only a short time. This large amount of money is certainly not grudged by anyone. We have, as has been pointed out in Debates on the Polish Resettlement Act and on other suitable occasions, a great obligation to these people, but our obligation arises because they are not in a position to be responsible for themselves and because they are far divorced from their own Government. If, in fact, they have got funds available I believe those funds should be used to carry part at any rate of this burden and to relieve the British taxpayer.

Part of it is being used by the Polish Combatants Association in this type of way, but 20 per cent. of it is put aside definitely for the sole use of the Polish Combatants Association. It is used largely for certain political purposes. It is through the Polish Combatants Association that the so-called Polish Government in this country is able to maintain itself and its representation in Dublin, Rome, Madrid and Cuba. I believe that we have here a definite diversion of funds for which the War Office is in no way responsible, though it is the Department responsible for the control of the units from whom these funds have been derived. I hope, therefore, that the Under-Secretary of State for War will be able to tell us that some steps are being taken to control any further escape of these funds, and to try to recover them from where they are gone.

4.22 p.m.

The Under-Secretary of State for War (Mr. Michael Stewart)

My hon. Friend the Member for Bexley (Mr. Bramall) has not left me very much time to deal with a rather complicated matter. The hon. and gallant Member for Lewes (Major Beamish) raised the question of the responsibility of the War Office for welfare funds. I think perhaps we might he content on that point by noticing that the Polish Forces as a combatant force have been disbanded and the Polish Resettlement Corps was formed but not as a permanent institution. There has been and will be a problem of laying down the general principle on which to govern the disposal of these funds when the units to which the funds originally belonged are no longer in existence. It is, of course, a War Office responsibility to see that in those circumstances proper disposal is made.

On the first question raised by the hon. Member for Bexley. These funds are unit welfare funds and I am not in a position to give him an exact answer. If similar questions were raised as to the amount of welfare funds owned by any unit of the British Army, we should not be able, without an entirely disproportionate amount of inquiry, to give any precise reply as to the amount involved. It will be realised also that what is the issue now is not merely an amount of money, but sports and welfare equipment on which a sum of money has been spent. Reference was made to supplies from non-British sources, such as gifts from Allied Government, or objects of various kinds that were claimed to be the property of the Polish state. It is our intention, if there are among such gifts vehicles which would be of use to the Polish Government, to make an offer of those vehicles to them. With regard to any other objects there may be, the Polish Government have access to the ordinary legal machinery for making any claim which they feel they have to them.

With regard to the custody and disposal of the funds, I would first refer to the funds other than those arising from the Second Polish Corps which was in Italy. Apart from those funds, the position is that the units of the Polish Force were disbanded as a concomitant to the formation of the Polish Resettlement Corps. Some of the welfare funds, certain categories of the funds, and equipment, were made available to the Polish Combatant Association. That Association has been able to carry on valuable welfare services in resettlement work and in training and in the provision of legal aid for these men. It cannot be maintained that the money which became available to the Polish Combatant Association was in any sense diverted from its purpose. The Polish Combatant Association does not undertake to do work of this kind for those men who may have returned to Poland.

The remainder of the funds is at present the property of units of the Polish Resettlement Corps and in due time the question of its disposal will arise. We are of the opinion that these funds should go to a benevolent institution. One which recommends itself as the most appropriate is the Polish Soldiers Assistance Fund, which undertakes the welfare and well being of Poles, wherever they may be, either in Poland or outside. I hope that will commend itself, not only to my hon. Friend, but to all quarters of the House.

With regard to the sums raised from the Second Polish Corps which was in Italy, there was at one time a considerable sum in lire in this welfare fund. It was clear that when the disposal of that was considered weight should be given to the claims of expenditure on the welfare of Poles in this country, of Poles in Italy and of Poles in Poland. Some recognition of the claims of Poles in Poland has already been made. Plans have been made for the disposal of this sum, and it is a matter of some regret that we have not been able to proceed further. It became apparent that legal proceedings were likely to occur. A body known as the "Third Carpathian Infantry Division Widows and Orphans and Invalids' Relief Fund" laid claim to some part of this sum. I think it will be putting it correctly to state that we expect legal proceedings to arise in consequence of that claim. We have not, therefore, been able to proceed with the plans we had in mind. We trust that, as soon as possible, the legal difficulties will be resolved, and that it will be possible to proceed with the disposal of this sum along the lines I have indicated.

It will be clear to the House that this money has either been, or will be, used for the welfare of the men by whom it was subscribed and for whom it was intended. It must be remembered that these sums spring originally from payments to the Polish Forces, the ultimate source of which was the British taxpayer. If it is felt in any quarters that we have not given sufficient weight to any claim of the Polish Government, I would remind the House of the terms of the financial agreement between His Majesty's Government and the provisional Polish Government as it then was. By that agreement our Government made no claim in respect of £73 million which they had advanced to the Polish Armed Forces and a claim for a further £50 million was left in abeyance.

A sum of £32 million for civilian administration was to be advanced to the Polish Government, and we were to make available to the Polish Government surplus goods to the value of £6 million. Those figures far exceed the sum of money now in question. I ask the House to believe that this money has been and will be used for its proper purposes, and that we have not been unreasonable towards the Polish Government.

Question put, and agreed to.

Adjourned accordingly at Half-past Four o'Clock.