HC Deb 18 February 1948 vol 447 cc1187-9
The Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Health (Mr. John Edwards)

I beg to move, in page 6, line 21, at the end, to add: subject to the following modifications, that is to say—

  1. (a) the reference in paragraph (a) of Subsection (1) of that Section to the discharge of their functions by the council shall be construed as a reference to the discharge of their functions under the National Health Service Act, 1946, by the local health authority; and
  2. (b) the reference in paragraph (b) of the said Subsection (1) to the expenditure of the council shall be construed as a reference to the expenditure of the local health authority under the said Act."
This Amendment is proposed in accordance with an undertaking given in Standing Committee. It is on the same principle as those Amendments with which we have just dealt.

Lieut.-Colonel Elliot

I think that a few words of explanation would be of advantage.

Mr. Edwards

The right hon. and gallant Gentleman will remember that in the Standing Committee he had certain observations to make on this Clause. I think that he moved an Amendment which he withdrew later. My right hon. Friend tabled this Amendment to meet the undertaking that he then gave. The Minister will now have the power, subject to report to Parliament, as under the preceding Clause, to reduce a Health Service Exchequer Grant if a local health authority has failed to achieve or maintain a reasonable standard of efficiency and progress in the discharge of its functions under the National Health Service Act or if the expenditure on a local health service under the Act has been excessive or unreasonable. I would emphasise that this is subject to the same procedure as that provided in Clause 6.

Mr. Charles Williams (Torquay)

May I ask for a full explanation of this? It is rather difficult for those who were not on the Standing Committee to follow what has happened from the short explanation which has been given. The Clause is slightly complicated. We have been told that the Amendment meets the wishes of the Committee, but I think that a Committee of the whole House is entitled to a further explanation of what is done and under what circumstances this position arises. These are matters upon which we may be cross-questioned at some time, and it is inconvenient to have to search out what happened in the Standing Committee when the position might be explained clearly in a few minutes.

Mr. Bevan

My hon. Friend explained the Amendment, but I would like to point out to hon. Members that, although they are fully entitled to discuss these matters in detail today, they could easily avail themselves of information on the point at issue by reading the OFFICIAL REPORT of the Committee stage. That is what it is for. This Amendment is tabled in fulfilment of a promise which I gave to the right hon. and gallant Member for the Scottish Universities (Lieut.-Colonel Elliot) during the Committee stage. It follows from the Amendments which we made to Clause 6.

Mr. C. Williams

I have been in this House for a few years and I have discovered that there are reports of the Committee stage discussions which we can read. I confirm that the Minister is completely and absolutely accurate on that point. We can really read them. However, it is utterly and absolutely impossible to keep up to date with all the Committees in all their doings. I ask very politely whether we might have a wider explanation today. It seems that we have an agreeable working arrangement between the two parties on opposite sides of the Committee, and I thought that the Minister, with his great ability and kindness, would have been only too glad to avail himself of the opportunity to tell us what this Amendment really means. I apologise to the Minister for giving him the extra trouble, but I thought it was a chance for him to help some of us who were in difficulty about it.

Amendment agreed to.

Clause, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.