HC Deb 04 November 1947 vol 443 cc1784-90

Motion made, and Question proposed, That the several Amendments to Standing Orders, and new Standing Orders, relating to Public Business, hereinafter stated on the Schedule, be made; and that Standing Order No. 2 be repealed.

SCHEDULE

Standing Order No. 1 (1), line 3, leave out "a quarter to three," and insert "half-past two."

Standing Order No. 1 (2), leave out whole paragraph, and insert—

(2) The House shall not be adjourned except in pursuance of a resolution: Provided that, when a substantive motion for the adjournment of the House has been proposed after ten of the clock Mr. Speaker shall, after the expiration of half an hour after that motion has been proposed, adjourn the House without question put.

Standing Order No. 1 (3), line 1, leave out "eleven," and insert "ten."

Standing Order No. 1 (3), line 3, leave out "aforesaid," and insert "hereinafter provided."

Standing Order No. 1 (5), line 2, leave out "eleven," and insert "ten of the clock."

Standing Order No. 1 (6), line 11, leave out "eleven," and insert "ten."

Standing Order No. I (8), leave out whole paragraph, and insert—

(8) A motion may be made by a minister of the crown, either with or without notice at the commencement of public business to be decided without amendment or debate, to the effect either—

  1. (a) That the proceedings on any specified business be exempted at this day's sitting from the provisions of the standing order "Sittings of the House"; or
  2. (b) That the proceedings on any specified business be exempted at this day's sitting from the provisions of the standing order "Sittings of the House" for a specified period after the hour appointed for the interruption of business.

Standing Order No. 1 (9), leave out whole paragraph, and insert—

(9) If a motion made under the preceding paragraph be agreed to, the business so specified shall not be interrupted if it is under discussion at the hour appointed for the interruption of business, may be entered upon at any hour although opposed, and, it under discussion when the business is postponed under the provisions of any standing order, may be resumed and proceeded with, though opposed, after the interruption of business:

Provided that business exempted for a specified period shall not be entered upon, or be resumed after the expiration of that period, and, if not concluded earlier, shall be interrupted at the end of the that period, and the relevant provisions of paragraphs (3) and (4) of this standing order shall then apply.

Standing Order No. 1, at end, add—

(10) Provided always that not more than one motion under paragraph (8) may be made at any one sitting, and that, after any business exempted from the operation of the order is disposed of after ten of the clock, the remaining business of the sitting shall be dealt with according to the provisions applicable to business taken after the hour appointed for the interruption of business.

Insert new Standing Order No. 2–

The House shall meet on Fridays at eleven of the clock for private business, petitions, orders of the day and notices of motions. Standing order No. 1 shall apply to the sittings on Fridays with the omission of paragraph (1) thereof and with the substitution of references to four of the clock for references to ten of the clock.

Standing Order No. 6 (2), line 2, after "after," insert "a quarter to."

Standing Order No. 6 (4), line 3, leave out "half-past."

Standing Order No. 6 (5), line 3, leave out "half-past."

Standing Order No. 7 (2), line 4, after "than," insert "a quarter to."

Standing Order No. 7 (3), line 1, leave out from "after," to "of," in line 2, and insert "half-past three."

Standing Order No. 7 (4), line 5, leave out "on the day," and insert "two days (excluding Sunday.)"

Standing Order No. 7 (4), at end add—

Provided that questions received at the Table Office on Monday and Tuesday before half-past two of the clock and on Friday before eleven of the clock, may, if so desired by the Member, be put down for oral answer on the following Wednesday, Thursday and Monday, respectively.

Standing Order No. 7 (5), line 4, leave out from "by," to "of," in line 5, and insert "half-past three."

Standing Order No. 7, insert new paragraph—

(6) Whenever the House is adjourned for more than one day, notices of questions received at the Table Office at any time not later than half-past four of the clock on either of the two last days on which the House is not sitting (excluding any Saturday or Sunday) shall be treated as if either day were a day on which the House were sitting at half-past four of the clock and the notice had been received after half-past two of the clock, and notices of questions received at the Table Office at any time not later than half-past four of the clock on a day before the penultimate day shall be treated as if they had been so received on the penultimate day.

Standing Order No. 8, line 6, after "made," insert "unless by a minister of the crown."

Standing Order No. 8, line 20, leave out from "until," to "on" in line 2r, and insert "seven of the clock."

Standing Order No. 25, line 1, after "counted," insert "on Mondays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays."

Standing Order No. 25, line 2, leave out "a quarter past eight," and insert "half-past seven."

Standing Order No. 25, line 2, leave out "a quarter past nine," and insert "half-past eight."

Standing Order No. 25, line 4, leave out "a quarter past eight," and insert "half-past seven."

Standing Order No. 25, line 4, leave out from "and," to "of" in line 5, and insert "half-past eight."

Standing Order No. 25, at end, add,—

"(2) Paragraph (1) of this standing order shall apply to sittings on Fridays, with the substitution of references to a quarter past one and a quarter past two of the clock for the references to half-past seven and half-past eight of the clock."

After Standing Order No 33, insert new Standing Order (Notices of amendments, etc.),—

(1) Whenever the House is adjourned for more than one day, notices of amendments, new clauses or new schedules (whether they are to be moved in committee or on report) received by the clerks at the table at any time not later than half-past four of the clock on the last day on which the House is not sitting (excluding any Saturday or Sunday) may be accepted by them as if the House was sitting.

(2) Notices of amendments, new clauses or new schedules to be moved in committee may be accepted by the clerks at the table before a bill has been read a second time.

Standing Order No. 69, line 1, leave out "resolution," and insert "motion."

Standing Order No. 69, line 7, leave out "resolution," and insert "motion."

Standing Order No. 69, at end, add, "and any resolution come to by such committee may, with the general agreement of the House, be reported forthwith."

Insert new Standing Order (Acceleration of meeting during adjournment),—

Whenever the House stands adjourned and it is represented to Mr. Speaker by His Majesty's Government that the public interest requires that the House should meet at any earlier time during the adjournment, and Mr. Speaker is satisfied that the public interest does so require, he may give notice that he is so satisfied, and thereupon the House shall meet at the time stated in such notice and the government business to be transacted on the day on which the House shall so meet shall, subject to the publication of notice thereof in the order paper to be circulated on the day on which the House shall so meet, be such as the government may appoint, but subject as aforesaid the House shall transact its business as if it had been duly adjourned to the day on which it shall so meet, and any government order of the day and government notices of motions that may stand on the order book for any day shall be appointed for the day on which the House shall so meet; provided also that in event of Mr. Speaker being unable to act owing to illness or other cause, the chairman of ways and means, or the deputy chairman, be authorised to act in his stead for the purposes of this standing order.—[Mr. H. Morrison.]

4.1 a.m.

Captain Crookshank

I beg to move, in line 20, to leave out "either with or without notice."

The object of moving this Amendment is to ask why this change is being made. Up to the present, under Standing Order No. 1 (8), the normal Motion which we see on the Order Paper in regard to the Business of the House, is That the Proceedings on Government Business be exempted, at this day's Sitting, from the provisions of the Standing Order (Sittings of the House) and that Motion stands in the name of a Minister of the Crown, and is moved at the beginning of Public Business. Now it is proposed to add to this Standing Order that this Motion can be moved, "with or without notice." It is quite true that during the war, when we sat for such brief hours and conditions were as they were, when frequently we met with great difficulty and not always in the same place, and when there were great difficulties in regard to printing of notices and all the rest of it, it was quite a reasonable thing for the Government to be empowered to move a Motion without notice. Now we are getting back to normal times, and I think it is wrong for the Government to decide to suspend the Standing Order (Sittings of the House) so that a Motion in regard to suspension of the Rule will not appear on the Order Paper. If the Government decide to suspend the Standing. Order (Sittings of the House) it should appear on the Order Paper with proper notice so that hon. Members will be able to know in the mornings if this Question is going to be taken at 3.30, and if they anticipate a Division they can come down and protest against it in the Lobby. If there is no notice they will not be aware that anything of the kind is proposed.

I do not know why in peacetime the Government want these powers. It seems to me that they are quite unnecessary, and if we are going to put these tiresome things in the Standing Orders someone some day will want to amend the Standing Orders again. I hope that the Government will not press this, and that we will get back to a little more normal procedure. There is not today the urgency there was in wartime for suspending the Standing Order (Sittings of the House).

4.4 a.m.

Mr. H. Morrison

It is a hard life to do one's duty as Leader of the House and try to meet the convenience of everybody. I can assure the right hon. and gallant Gentleman that the purpose of these words "with or without notice" will be, probably, four times out of five to meet the request either of the Opposition or of back benchers for extra time. Sometimes these considerations arise at the last minute and there is an exchange across the Floor of the House as to whether or not it is possible to have one hour or two hours extra. One can, so to speak, sense the atmosphere of the House as to what it wants.

Captain Crookshank

The right hon. Gentleman does not sense the atmosphere of the House tonight.

Mr. Morrison

That is because the right hon. and gallant Gentleman has not a very good case tonight. One senses the atmosphere of the House, and one feels it would be for the general convenience of the House, and that everybody would be happier if the suspension were moved, and so one moves the extension right away. Therefore, this is not really a case of the Government's trying to steal some power to give them an advantage, although it is true that it may be the case on individual occasions that the Government may want to use this facility in order to get their business through. But I. should say that, in the majority of cases, this will be used for the purpose of meeting the wishes of the House generally, and especially, of Members on the back benches, and sometimes of the official Opposition.

Having said that, let me say that I agree with the spirit of what the right hon. and gallant Gentleman says. I agree that if the Rule is to be suspended, it is much better that the Government should put the proposal on the Order Paper, so that Members in the morning can know that that is to be done. We shall make every possible effort to do that. We shall try to get it on the Order Paper when we know we are going to do it. I should, however, like to leave it open that, on occasions, for the convenience of the House—sometimes for the convenience of the Government, but mostly for the convenience of the House—we can suspend the Rule for a period. But I can assure the right hon. and gallant Gentleman that we shall not do it for fun. If we know we are going to do it, it will be our wish to put it on the Order Paper. After those few kindly, conciliatory observations, I hope the right hon. and gallant Gentleman will see his way to withdraw the Amendment.

4.7 a.m.

Mr. Butcher

It is all very well for the Lord President to say that this is done for the convenience of the House, but he has chosen the wrong time to make that kind remark. The whole point is that his desire to retain the words "either with or without notice," is just another example of the lack of consideration the right hon. Gentleman shows to Private Members. The House had been running long before he arrived in it, and it will continue to run long after he has departed, and in all the past years the House has had notice given it of such a Motion for suspension. Every other Leader of the House has been able to arrange through the usual channels to have notice given of a Motion for the suspension. During the war it was necessary for the Government to have power to move a Motion for suspension without notice, but in other times than those of war there is no reason why the Government should be able to do this, unless we are to regard our country as being in such danger now under a Socialist Government, under the right hon. Gentleman and his friends, as it was when we were exposed to the attacks of Hitler and his allies.

Captain Crookshank

In response to the right hon. Gentleman, I do not want to press this Amendment because I take his assurance that this power must be for something very exceptional. The real fact of the matter is that, though this Government claim to be a Government of planners, they cannot even decide for certain on a given day what the Business of the House is to be next afternoon. It is a poor omen for the larger matters with which they are expected to deal. But, after all that, I am prepared to let it go now, reserving my right to propose an Amendment, if necessary, on a subsequent occasion. I beg to ask leave to withdraw the Amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Standing Orders to be printed [No. 6].