HC Deb 24 June 1947 vol 439 cc394-400
Mr. Pickthorn

I beg to move, in page 52, line 2, to the end, to insert: and shall comply with the requirements as to the accounts of companies contained in any general Act for the time being in force, so far as capable of application. I think that the intention of the Amendment is evident on the face of it, and requires almost no exposition. The Bill provides that the accounts are to conform to the best commercial standards and unless we have a convincing reason I cannot see anything against the argument that the best commercial standards must include compliance with the Companies Acts. It may be that there is some objection to such specific mandatory words in the Bill which has not occurred to us, but it seems to us that there is no objection. It makes the thing clearer and tighter.

Colonel Clarke

I beg to second the Amendment.

The Solicitor-General

We feel that we cannot accept this Amendment. I suppose that the effect of it would be that, for example, under the present Companies Bill, all the requirements set out in the First Schedule would have to be complied with in relation to accounts of the boards and the Central Authority. A number of provisions of that Schedule would be, or might be, inappropriate. There is power under Clause 116 (I), of the Companies Bill to make alterations from time to time. In the requirements under the Schedule, one does not know what these alterations may be in form but they would be determined according to the requirements of companies, and that might, or might not, be appropriate to the requirements of the Clause. We feel that the provision already lays down the best standard which can be used for this purpose. We have stated that the accounts must be drawn up in accordance with the best commercial standards and we feel that having laid down that standard, we cannot really improve upon the matter by putting on top of that standard a requirement to comply with statutory enactments, the precise terms of which are not yet known, and which may be altered from time to time. We feel that the Clause should remain as it is.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

I am very disappointed with the reply of the Solicitor-General. His reply fell under two heads. First, he set out' to argue that the present term in the Bill" the best com-

mercial standards" was a more precise criterion than the provision of any general Act of Parliament then in force—in effect of course, the Companies Act. It is an extraordinary proposition. Surely, a Bill at present going through the House, brought forward by the hon. and learned Gentleman's own Government, will necessarily provide a more precise standard than the best commercial standards in force? Surely there can be no comparison, unless the Solicitor-General is seeking to suggest that the Companies Bill is thoroughly badly drafted ? I am sure that is not his suggestion. Surely, an Act of Parliament must be the criterion, and not the practice of outside companies?

The learned Solicitor-General gave no reason at all why the great commercial monopoly being set up by this Bill should not comply with the standards which it is thought should be applied to private companies. We are setting up a monopoly under this Bill, and we should insist, if anything, on higher standards than those imposed on companies which are not monopolies and which are competing with each other for the attention of the public. It seems most unfortunate that the learned Solicitor-General should decline to agree that the standards which we are to impose upon private firms should not also be imposed upon this great monopoly. The learned Solicitor-General's argument was so unsubstantial that one wonders whether there was not some other reason in his mind for rejecting so sound a proposition as that contained in this Amendment. His argument was not only unworthy of his office, but was unworthy, if I may say so, of his own reputation. If there is really no better argument against applying the standard of his own Government's Companies' Bill to the Central Authority, then I think the House must accept the Amendment.

Question put, "That those words be there inserted in the Bill."

The House divided: Ayes, 71; Noes, 185.

Division No. 282.] AYES. [1.25 a.m.
Baldwin, A. E. Channon, H. Dodds-Parker, A. D.
Birch, Nigel Clarke, Col. R. S. Drayson, G. B.
Bower, N. Clifton-Brown, Lt.-Col. G. Drewe, C.
Boyd-Carpenter, J. A. Conant, Maj. R. J. E. Eden, Rt. Hon. A.
Bracken, Rl. Hon. Brendan Corbett, Lieut,-Col. U. (Ludlow) Elliot, Rt. Hon. Walte.
Braithwaite, Lt-Comdr. J. G. Crosthwaite-Eyre, Col. 0. E Foster, J. G. (Northwich)
Buchan-Hepburn, P. G. T. Crowder, Capt. John E. Fraser, Sir I (Lonsdale)
Butcher, H. W. Davidson, Viscountess Gage, G.
Galbraith, Cmdr. T. D. Maitland, Comdr. J. W. Robinson, Wing-Comdr. Rolawe)
Gridley, Sir A. Manningham-Buller, R. E Ropner, Col. L.
Grimston, R. V. Marshall D. (Bodmin) Spearman, A. C M
Hare, Hon. J. H. (Woodbridge) Marshall, S. H. (Sutton) Spence, H. R
Haughton, S. G. Morrison, Maj. J. G. (Salisbury) Stoddart-Scott, Col. M.
Henderson, John (Calhcart) Neven-Spence, Sir B. Strauss, H G. (English Universities)
Hope, Lord J. Noble, Comdr A. H. P Thomas, J. P. L (Hereford)
Howard, Hon. A. Nutting, Anthony Thornton-Kemsley, C N
Hudson, Rt. Hon. R. S. (Southport) Osborne, C. Thorp, Lt.-Col R. A F
Hutchison, Lt.-Cm. Clark (E'b'rgh W.) Peto, Brig. C. H. M. Touche, G. C.
Hutchison, Col. J. R. (Glasgow, C.) Pickthorn, K Vane, W. M F.
Lambert, Hon G Poole, O B. S. (Oswestry) Wheatley, Colonel M J
Lancaster, Col. C. G Price-White, Lt.-Col. D Willoughby de Eresby, Lord
Lennox-Boyd, A. T. Prior-Palmer, Brig O.
Linstead, H. N. Raikes, H. V. TELLERS FOR THE AYES:
Mackeson, Brig. H. R. Reid, Rt. Hon. J. S. C (Hillhead) Mr. Studholme and
Macpherson, N. (Dumfries) Roberts, H. (Handsworth) Major Ramsay.
NOES.
Adams, Richard (Balham) Griffiths, W D (Moss Side) Platts-Mills, J. F. F.
Adams, W. T. (Hammersmith, South) Gunter, R. J Poole, Major Cecil (Lichfield)
Alexander, Rt. Hon. A. V. Hale, Leslie Popplewell, E
Allen, A. C. (Bosworth) Hamilton, Lieut.-Col R Price, M. Philips
Anderson, A. (Motherwell) Hardy, E. A Pritt, D. N.
Attewell, H. C. Hastings, Dr Somervitle Pryde, D J.
Austin, H. Lewis Henderson, Joseph (Ardwick) Randall, H. E.
Awbery, S. S Herbison, Miss M Ranger, J
Baird, J. Hobson, C. R. Robens, A.
Barton, C. Holman, P. Roberts, Emrys (Merioneth)
Bechervaise, A. E Holmes, H. E. (Hemswerth) Robertson, J. J. (Berwick)
Beswick, F. House, G. Ross, William (Kiln-.arnock)
Blackburn, A. R. Hoy, J. Royle, C.
Blenkinsop, A. Hubbard, 1. Sargood, R
Blyton, W. R Hudson, J. H. (Ealing, W) Scollan, T
Bowden, Flg.-Offr. H. W. Hughes, Hector (Aberdeen, N.) Segal, Dr. S.
Bowles, F. G. (Nuneaton) Hynd, H. (Hackney, C.) Sharp, Granville
Braddock, Mrs. E. M. (L'pl, Exch'ge) Hynd, J. B. (Attercliffe) Shawcross, C. N. (Widnes)
Brook, D (Halifax) Jay, D. P. I Shinwell, Rt. Hon. E
Brown, T J (Ince) Jeger, G. (Winchester) Shurmer, P.
Burke, W. A. Jeger, Dr. S. W (St. Pancras, S.E.) Silverman, J (Erdington)
Butler, H. W. (Hackney, S.) Jones, D. T. (Hartlepools) Simmons, C.J.
Byers, Frank Keenan, W Skeffington, A. M.
Carmichael, James Kenyon, C. Smith, C. (Colchester)
Chamberlain, R. A. King, E. M Snow, Capt. J. W
Champion, A. J Kinghorn, Sqn.-Ldr E Solley, L. J
Cocks, F. S. Kinley, J Sorensen, R. W.
Collins, V J. Lavers, S. Soskioe, Maj. Sir F.
Comyns, Dr L. Lee, F. (Hulme) Stewart, Michael (Fulham E.)
Corbet, Mrs. F. K (Camb'well, N.W.) Levy, B W Stokes, R. R.
Cerlett, Dr. J. Lewis, A W J. (Upton) Strauss, G. R (Lambeth, N.)
Crossman, R. H. S Lipton, Lt.-Col. M Stubbs, A. E.
Daggar, G Logan, D. G Swingler, S.
Daines, P Longden, F Sylvester, G. 0.
Davies, Edward (Burslem) Lyne, A W Taylor, R. J. (Morpeth)
Davies, Ernest (Enfield) McGhee, H. G Thomas, D. E. (Aberdare)
Deer, G Mack, J. D. Thomas, George (Cardiff)
Delargy, H. J. McKay, J (Wallsend) Thorneycroft Harry (Clayton)
Diamond, J. Mackay, R W. G (Hull, N.W) Timmons, J.
Dodds, N N. McKinlay, A S Tolley, L.
Driberg, T. E. N. McLeavy, F. Usborne, Henry
Ede, Rt. Hon. J C. Mainwaring, W. H Wadsworth, G
Edwards, W. J. (Whiteohapel) Mallalieu,' J. p. w Wallace, G. D. (Chislehurst)
Evans, John (Ogmore) Mann, Mrs. J. Wallace, H. W. (Walthamstow, E.)
Evans, S. N. (Wednesbury) Manning, C (Camberwell, N.) Watkins, T. E.
Ewart, R. Manning, Mrs L (Epping) Watson, W. M.
Fairhurst, F. Mathers, G Wells, P. L. (Faversham)
Fernyhough, E. Middleton, Mrs. L Wells, W. T. (Walsall)
Field, Captain W. J. Mitchison, G. R. Whiteley, Rt. Hon W
Fletcher, E G. M (Islington, E.) Morris, Lt.-Col. H. (Sheffield, C.) Wigg, Col G. E.
Follick, M. Morris, P (Swansea, W.) Wilkes, L.
Foot, M. M Moyle, A. Wilkins, W. A.
Forman, J C Neal, H. (Claycross) Willey, 0. G. (Cleveland)
Fraser, T. (Hamilton; Nicholls. H. R. (Stratford) Williams, J. (Keivingrove)
Freeman, Peter (Newport) Noel-Baker, Capt. F. E. (Brentford) Williams, W. R (Heston)
Gaitskell, H. T. N. Noel-Buxton, Lady Willis, E.
Gallacher, W. Oliver, G. H Wills, Mrs E A
Ganley, Mrs C S Orbach, M. Woods, G S.
Gibbins, J. Paget, R. T. Zilliaous, K
Gilzean, A. Palmer, A. M. F
Glanville, J. E. (Consett) Parkin, B T TELLERS FOR THE NOES
Gordon-Walker, P. C. Pearson, A Mr. Hannan and
Griffiths, D. (Rother Valley) Piratin, P Mr. Collindridge.

Question put, and agreed to.

1.30 a.m.

Mr. Shinwell

I beg to move, in page 52, line 2, at the end, to insert: (2) The form of the said statement shall be such as to secure the provision of separate information as respects the generation of electricity, the distribution of electricity, and each of the main other activities of the Electricity Board concerned. There was some anxiety expressed in Committee about the powers of the Central Authority's area boards in respect of the manufacture of electrical fittings. It was suggested that unless the greatest care was exercised in the presentation of the form of accounts, it might be possible for the area boards to compete unfairly with private manufacturers engaged in the production of these articles. Consequently it was thought desirable to provide a form of words which made it clear that in the presentation of the accounts there should be the necessary separation in detail so as to ensure that there would be no possibility of a global figure being presented which would conceal the charges which had arisen from the manufacture of these articles. That is the purpose of this Amendment. It is intended to satisfy those engaged in this class of business, and I think, on the whole, it is desirable to do so.

Amendment agreed to.

Mr. Pickthon

I beg to move, in page 52, line 20, at the end, to insert: and copies thereof shall be made available to the public at a reasonable price. There is a further Amendment in page 52, line 20, at end to insert: and copies thereof shall be on sale at a reasonable charge at the offices of the Central Authority. I do not think it is necessary for me to explain the purpose of this Amendment. The purpose is to have copies of these statements readily accessible to the public, and I know of no objection to that.

Mr. Birch

I beg to second the Amendment.

Mr. Shinwell

When this matter was raised in Committee, I intimated that I saw no objection to the principle, but I am not satisfied about the form of words, and if the House agrees I should like to give them further consideration, while accepting the principle embodied in the Amendment.

Mr. Pickthorn

I beg to ask leave to withdraw the Amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.