ELECTRICITY BILL (Hansard, 23 June 1947)

§ Mr. Speaker
I think it would be for the convenience of the House if I made a short statement about the reason for not calling this Motion. Hon. Members will be aware that some new Clauses came on the Order Paper on Friday morning, and the Opposition complained that they had not time to put down Amendments before the discussion today. Therefore, there were some con- 42 sultations, I understand, and it was suggested that we might have a recommittal of these Clauses at the end of the Report stage. Then, this morning, it was again put to me that it would probably be more convenient, instead of having two recommittal stages, to have one recommittal at the end of the Report stage. That is the course which I propose to adopt, and I hope it will be for the convenience of the House. I am informed that it will not necessarily hamper debate on the Amendments which are already down on the Order Paper and which will not be recommitted. I should like to add that this is rather a new procedure, and I hope we will not have to adopt it again, because I think it is more convenient to take the recommittal at the beginning of our consideration of the Bill as amended.

§ Mr. Eden (Warwick and Leamington)
If I may say so, Mr. Speaker, we are very much obliged to you for the trouble you have taken to try to meet the convenience of the House. As far as one can see, although we cannot tell until we actually begin our discussions, the proposal which you make would seem to be the best in the circumstances, but I must say to the Leader of the House and to the Minister in charge of this Bill, that the House ought not to be placed in this position again. There is absolutely no precedent for the House being treated like this, and I must remind the Minister in charge of the Bill 43 that upstairs, before the end of April, he appealed to the Committee—quite rightly, and I make no complaint about it—to finish the Committee stage before Whit-sun, so that he could get the Amendments down for the Report stage in good time for the convenience of the House. Yet, here we are, faced with these Amendments which the right hon. Gentleman put down only last Friday, and, what is even more extraordinary, an Amendment to the recommittal Motion, which only reached us at 2.30 this afternoon. That is not the way in which business should be done in this House, and I ask the Government to give us an assurance that we shall not have a repetition of this proceeding.

§ The Minister of Fuel and Power (Mr. Shinwell)
Naturally, we are anxious to suit the convenience of the House, and I am grateful to you, Mr. Speaker, for the suggestion which has been made. I must avail myself of the opportunity, in view of what was said by the acting Leader of the Opposition, to point out that every effort was made, in consultation with hon. Members of the Opposition, to place the new Clauses which are the subject of contention on the Order Paper as soon as possible. In fact, we have been in the closest touch with hon. Members of the Opposition about matters that arise on the Report stage, and I confess to being completely bewildered by the suggestion that our action in putting down the new Clauses was belated. Early last week, and during the previous week, I myself and my hon. Friend the Parliamentary Secretary were in consultation with the right hon. Member for Southport (Mr. R. S. Hudson), and I was given the impression that everything was proceeding harmoniously. Therefore, I was all the more surprised that reference was made to the matter last Thursday afternoon. It is perfectly true—and I am seeking no alibi in the matter—that, in reference to one of the two new Clauses, difficulty was experienced in arranging matters with representative bodies which were concerned with the provisions of this Bill before we were able to reach a conclusion, but I am not aware of any inhibitions on the part of the Parliamentary Secretary or myself in respect of the consultations with the right hon. Gentleman and his colleagues about the Report stage. Indeed, on the Committee stage, we worked very harmoniously together, and I 44 expressed myself to that effect at the end of the Committee stage. I can assure the right hon. Member for Warwick and Leamington that, if there has been any fault at all, it has not been with us.

§ Mr. R. S. Hudson (Southport)
Whatever the right hon. Gentleman says, the effect is the same—that we have been deprived of proper time in which to consider the new Clauses and to put down Amendments. As far as the two Clauses for recommittal are concerned, it is perfectly true that, seeing them for the first time on Friday, we did ask if it was possible to have them postponed until the end. I accept the responsibility for that. But, as regards the other Clauses, some of which only appeared on Tuesday, we did not ask for recommittal. I understand that, owing to their belated appearance on the Order Paper, it was only today that their examination by the officials of the House could be carried out, and that they decided that these Clauses should be, recommitted. I was informed of that only a few minutes ago, and, as far as I know, that is the position. Considering that it was as long ago as the end of April that the right hon. Gentleman knew all about these Clauses and what we were asking, it really seems intolerable that he should delay either their appearance on the Order Paper or that, after they had appeared, we should have such a short interval before the Report stage. It is not treating the Opposition with the fairness to which they are entitled. It is unprecedented in my memory of the House that an occurrence of this sort has had to be gone through. Individual cases of recommittal, yes, but to have to recommit the whole of the Government's new Clauses at this late stage is absolutely intolerable.

§ Mr. Hopkin Morris (Carmarthen)
The right hon. Gentleman the Minister rather surprised me. As I understand it, his reason was that negotiations were going on between himself and the Opposition in Committee. But there were other Members of the Committee. Therefore, they were entitled to see these new Clauses and to put down Amendments if they wished. To exclude other hon. Members of the Committee is to exclude the rights of the House.

§ Mr. Shinwell
There was no intention on my part to exclude the rights of any hon. 45 Member. But it is the common form of this House to seek consultation with the official Opposition in order to expedite the passage of a Bill, and I sought to do that. Having endeavoured to do that, I am now being criticised for seeking consultation. At any rate, it does not seem that there is any value in pursuing this matter further. All I can say is that certainly no disrespect was intended, either to the Opposition or to any other hon. Member.

§ Mr. Stephen (Glasgow, Camlachie)
I want to be clear abut this new procedure, Mr. Speaker. Will there be a second Report stage with regard to the recommitted Clauses? I take it that will be the case.

§ Mr. Speaker
Three days are allotted. Of course, the new Clauses do not come up for discussion on the Report stage unless Amendments are put down. If Amendments are put down, then they have to be called. Therefore, there will be a Report stage again.

§ Mr. R. S. Hudson
You said three allotted days, Mr. Speaker, but there has been no allotment. The Government have merely stated that that is all they propose to allow. It does not follow that, in the changed circumstances, we shall get through the Business in three days.

§ Mr. Shinwell
I must enter a caveat because the right hon. Gentleman explicitly agreed with me, when we suggested three days, that that would be acceptable.

§ Lieut.-Colonel Elliot (Scottish Universities)
I must point out that neither the right hon. Gentleman nor my right hon. Friend has any authority to allot the time of this House. That can only be done by Resolution of the House. No such Resolution has been carried, and, therefore, I would respectfully submit, the word allotment" is out of place.

§ Mr. Speaker
Perhaps we can now get on with the Business.