1. Mr. De la Bèreasked the Minister of Fuel and Power whether, in connection with the distribution of coal which is to be imported from the U.S.A., it is the Government's intention to continue the recent practice of allowing the arrangements to be made by the National Coal Board; and if he will give favourable consideration to adding to the number of distributing firms as, at present, four such firms have been given a virtual monopoly.
§ 19. Wing-Commander Roland Robinsonasked the Minister of Fuel and Power what were the reasons for the appointment by the National Coal Board of four firms only to import coal from U.S.A.
§ The Minister of Fuel and Power (Mr. Shinwell)As announced in the Press some weeks ago, it has been decided in present circumstances to entrust the handling of coal imports to the National Coal Board, who are, of course, responsible for the distribution of coal in this country. In deciding to appoint four British firms as their agents, the National Coal Board have, no doubt, taken all 2190 relevant factors into consideration, including the volume of business to be handled.
Mr. De la BèreIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that if this practice is continued it will amount to nothing more or less than a monopoly? Surely, the Government were pledged at the time of the General Election against monopoly and cartel arrangements. Can the right hon. Gentleman give a little more information with regard to this very unfortunate matter than he has given in the past?
§ Mr. ShinwellThere is no question of monopoly in the selection of these four firms. If coal imports continue it may be that some other firms would be appointed to undertake this job. In view of the volume of coal to be handled, it was thought that four firms were quite sufficient for the purpose.
§ Wing-Commander RobinsonIs the Minister aware that only about a dozen firms were normally engaged in this business, and these firms have been excluded by the decision of the National Coal Board, whereas one of the firms selected has had hardly any American business during the last 20 years?
§ Mr. ShinwellNo firms are engaged in this business at all. This is the business of importing coal, and the firms to which the hon. and gallant Gentleman refers export coal.
§ Mr. Stanley PrescottIs this not the first time in the history of this country that it has been necessary to import coal and is it, therefore, surprising that the right hon. Gentleman is not familiar with distributive problems?
§ Mr. ShinwellThat is not so; the hon. Member is misinformed. There have been occasions when coal has been imported.
§ Mr. McAdamBefore agreeing to import coal from the U.S.A., will my right hon. Friend see that it is suitable for British industrial purposes, particularly having in mind our experiences during 1921 and 1926 of importing coal—an experience which cost the Glasgow Corporation £20,000 for renewal of its gas plant.
§ Mr. ShinwellIt is precisely because we are anxious about the quality of the coal to be imported that the National Coal Board have sent over their marketing experts to deal with the matter.
§ Dr. Stephen Taylor rose—
Mr. De la BèreI want a doctor, and perhaps he would be kind enough to advise the Government against the danger of monopoly.
§ Mr. SpeakerI think that the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question is rather frivolous.
§ Mr. KeenanIs it in Order, Mr. Speaker, for an hon. Member to get up and ask a question such as that asked by the hon. Member for Evesham (Mr. De la Bère), which is rather an abuse of the House?
§ Mr. SpeakerI rose at the time, and said that I thought it was rather frivolous.
. Mr. De la BèreMay I express my regret, Mr. Speaker. It was frivolous. Nevertheless, I feel very strongly about it.
7. Lieut.-Colonel Dowerasked the Minister of Fuel and Power what steps he took to ensure that the price to be paid per ton of coal he has recently arranged to purchase from the U.S.A. is the lowest and that no other arrangements could have been made to avoid this loss to the Treasury.
§ 14. Mr. D. J. Williamsasked the Minister of Fuel and Power if he is in a position to give details of the price of U.S. coal to be imported into this country.
§ Mr. ShinwellAs I stated on 12th June in reply to the hon. Member for Maid-stone (Mr. Bossom), no contracts have yet been entered into regarding the supply of coal from the U.S. to this country. Negotiations with American authorities are continuing and I have no doubt that the National Coal Board, to whom the task has been entrusted, can be relied upon to make suitable arrangements.
Lieut.-Colonel DowerIs it not a fact that the Minister anticipates importing 600,000 tons of this coal at a price which is as much as £8 a ton? Is it not a regrettable thing that we have to import coal at this tremendous price when we have plenty of coal here waiting to be hewn?
§ Mr. ShinwellAs regards the price of this imported coal, there is a question on the Order Paper which I shall answer later on, but as regards importing coal, I was under the impression that there was a demand from the Opposition that we should seek every means in our power to import coal.
§ 18. Wing-Commander Robinsonasked the Minister of Fuel and Power on what grounds he anticipates paying £8 per ton for coal from the U.S.A.; what is the breakdown of this probable cost; and why he disclosed the high price he was prepared to pay before opening negotiations with the U.S.A.
§ Mr. ShinwellThe negotiations for the purchase of U.S. coals are in the hands of a representative of the National Coal Board now in the U.S.A. and these negotiations have not yet been completed. The figure of £8 per ton was an estimate of the approximate cost of importing certain coals offered from the American West Coast ports and should not be taken either as typical or as indicating the price we were prepared to pay.
§ Wing-Commander RobinsonIs the Minister aware that foreigners may know him as "Mr. Paywell" if he continues to shout the odds about the inflated prices he is prepared to pay for foreign coal?
§ Mr. ShinwellI do not understand the hon. and gallant Member's language, but if he means that a definite price was given he is quite wrong. It is quite impossible for anybody, even an expert, to know what the price is likely to be when the coal arrives in this country. It depends on many factors, including freight charges which are very variable.
§ Sir Peter MacdonaldIs it not fantastic that we should buy coal from America at £8 a ton at a time when we are introducing the 40-hour week?
§ Colonel LancasterIn view of the tact that the cost of producing soft coal in America averages 2.69 dollars a ton, wherein lies this very wide discrepancy between that figure and the general price of £8 a ton to which the Minister has referred?
§ Mr. ShinwellI am sorry that I cannot oblige the hon. and gallant Member by giving him the details. I am in the hands of those who say that they know all about 2193 it—the exporters and the people who are engaged in the business, the marketing people mainly represented by hon. Members opposite. I have to rely on what they say and they tell me that the price varies according to a number of factors, a great many of which are unpredictable.
§ 20. Wing-Commander Robinsonasked the Minister of Fuel and Power whether he is aware of the resentment felt by coal exporters in the U.S.A. by their virtual exclusion from business with the United Kingdom by the appointment of a cartel of four firms for the purchase of coal from the U.S.A.; and what steps he proposes to take to meet these objections.
§ Mr. ShinwellI have entrusted this matter to the National Coal Board and am sure that they will make appropriate arrangements for the purchase of U.S. coal for importation into this country.
§ Wing-Commander RobinsonIs the Minister aware that he may well not obtain all the coal he wants from America if he antagonises the American trade?
§ Mr. ShinwellThere is not the slightest indication that the American trade has been antagonised. We have had no indication of it in the Department nor has the National Coal Board, and I must assume that the hon. and gallant Member is using his imagination.
§ Wing-Comander RobinsonHas not the Minister seen the reports in both the American and British Press about this matter?
§ Mr. ShinwellI have seen them but one does not accept every one of them.